Cave gear and light recommendations needed

[STIDVC]

I will just say this if you're not opposed to buying used then a 21W HID light (Halcyon / Light Money / Salvo) can be picked up very cheap since LED is the new "hotness."

A 21W HID used to be the gold standard for cave diving. I would bet more caves have been explored and illuminated with a 21W HIDs then LEDs.

I'm still a big fan of HIDs for murky water with lots of particulates. LEDs admittedly have smaller light heads and travel well and are smaller but I've got multiple HID lights still on their original bulbs and I don't exactly baby my gear.

There is some element to "buy once, cry once." Say you spend $500 on a good quality light for cavern/intro. Should you have just invested that $500 into a better primary in the first place?

The 32W LED by Light Monkey is a fine light. I also really like the Dive Rite EX35

Sounds great. I'll see what I can find on the second hand market. This has never crossed my mind so thanks !

 

[Caveeagle]

There is some element to "buy once, cry once." Say you spend $500 on a good quality light for cavern/intro. Should you have just invested that $500 into a better primary in the first place?

I suppose If the op is really going from cavern to cave-CCR in 14 days, maybe he should just bite the bullet and buy a 300m, >$1,000 can light.

but I don’t think the “buy once, cry once” logic holds true for the majority of divers setting out to gear up for cavern/intro training.
1-I have seen many of “those” divers sporting $1,000+ can lights but still rocking a zoop, or yoke regs, when they are easily 100 dives away from being competent enough for a 3hr plus deco dive,
2-In 12 months, a new series of “best in class” lights may be out, so why not wait?
3-there are several good lights out there that will make a great cavern/intro primary, and can become back ups in 6-12 months when you actually (may) need that $1,000 light.
4-Lets not forget about the life cycle and replacement cost of batteries. Most of the new “best in class” can lights have non user serviceable batteries. And sitting around, unused isn’t great for them. Both the Big Blue, and the DR LX20/HP50 use Panasonic 18650s that are darn cheap to replace, or even carry a spare set.

Buy Smart! ...Cry Less!,

 

[flymolo]

Going from 0 cavern/cave experience all the way through full and ccr cave seems like a big leap. You might want to consider talking to some other instructions (in the area or in others) to see what the consensus on that is. To me it seems like too much too soon.

 

[flymolo]

To put it in more perspective, at the end of all that training you will be holding the "highest" level of certification, but inexperienced and with 0 out of class dives.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

I missed the part regarding cavern to full cave/zero to hero. If you're really set on that plan then a good quality can light may be the way to go. However, as others have cautioned, zero to hero cave courses are generally not a good idea. I would highly recommend something along the lines of doing your cavern/intro, getting some experience, and then doing your full cave!

Just my two cents.

- Ryan

 

[Caveeagle]

Im glad I posted this here as the feedback from all of you is invaluable. I was not aware that going all the way to full cave was considered to be that hardcore, I knew it was a big leap but didn't expect that it was that extreme. Cheers!

Being that your are currently a CCR diver, I see the juxtaposition you are in. I am not aware of anyone that really issues an Intro cave/CCR. Which is what you really need unless you are happy to dive OC until after full cave.

to me this is similar to how they don’t really offer an Intro-Cave-DPV for people who want to use a dpv in high flow caves, but don’t really plan to scoot 4k feet to the back of Ginnie. Having a CCR and DPV, sort of puts you into the category of cave divers who are doing 3-4hr+ dives, ...which NOBODY should be doing with less than 50 cave dives under their belt.

you might want to read up on the new NSS-CDS training levels. I’m still a little confused by them. But from memory, I bet you could do your cave intro-apprentice in your 10-14 window, and have a few days open for post training fun dives.

 

[STIDVC]

I suppose If the op is really going from cavern to cave-CCR in 14 days, maybe he should just bite the bullet and buy a 300m, >$1,000 can light.

but I don’t think the “buy once, cry once” logic holds true for the majority of divers setting out to gear up for cavern/intro training.
1-I have seen many of “those” divers sporting $1,000+ can lights but still rocking a zoop, or yoke regs, when they are easily 100 dives away from being competent enough for a 3hr plus deco dive,
2-In 12 months, a new series of “best in class” lights may be out, so why not wait?
3-there are several good lights out there that will make a great cavern/intro primary, and can become back ups in 6-12 months when you actually (may) need that $1,000 light.
4-Lets not forget about the life cycle and replacement cost of batteries. Most of the new “best in class” can lights have non user serviceable batteries. And sitting around, unused isn’t great for them. Both the Big Blue, and the DR LX20/HP50 use Panasonic 18650s that are darn cheap to replace, or even carry a spare set.

Buy Smart! ...Cry Less!,

I have always loved the idea of biting the bullet but can't say it has always been a good decision.

Going from 0 cavern/cave experience all the way through full and ccr cave seems like a big leap. You might want to consider talking to some other instructions (in the area or in others) to see what the consensus on that is. To me it seems like too much too soon.

I missed the part regarding cavern to full cave/zero to hero. If you're really set on that plan then a good quality can light may be the way to go. However, as others have cautioned, zero to hero cave courses are generally not a good idea. I would highly recommend something along the lines of doing your cavern/intro, getting some experience, and then doing your full cave!

Just my two cents.

- Ryan

Apologies guys I seem to have missed out that the CCR will come way way way later but nevertheless the 0 to hero sounds scary to me as well. I will look further into this and may opt out or delay the full cave all together.

I know what I feel about ow to idc I'm guessing that's how I look like to you vets haha!

 

[STIDVC]

Being that your are currently a CCR diver, I see the juxtaposition you are in. I am not aware of anyone that really issues an Intro cave/CCR. Which is what you really need unless you are happy to dive OC until after full cave.

to me this is similar to how they don’t really offer an Intro-Cave-DPV for people who want to use a dpv in high flow caves, but don’t really plan to scoot 4k feet to the back of Ginnie. Having a CCR and DPV, sort of puts you into the category of cave divers who are doing 3-4hr+ dives, ...which NOBODY should be doing with less than 50 cave dives under their belt.

you might want to read up on the new NSS-CDS training levels. I’m still a little confused by them. But from memory, I bet you could do your cave intro-apprentice in your 10-14 window, and have a few days open for post training fun dives.

I am in absolutely no rush into this neither do I want to rush a cave course. It's similar to driving into a brick wall. I am more than happy to do OC till full cave till it's the right time for CCR cave. It was just an option which I declined right out to do it all at once. I did mention I was still interested but not all in one go as it'll be too much for me to handle without a doubt.

Heck I would be scared poopless to do a 2 hour oc cave dive let alone a 3 hour CCR dive. Would you consider the cavern>intro being a better option then? I'm all ears to opinions as well as trying not to kill myself too quickly

 

[rddvet]

I won't say that I am a seasoned technical diver, I am currently on TEC45 with about 100 dives since certification from 40. I see your on the huge leap forward and have my own personal concerns regarding totally new environments + a ton of new skills to learn and develop. Although I have my reservations, I am very cautious of not pushing beyond my limits and would consider putting pause on the course and do more cavern dives for experience in the event that I do not feel too confident or comfortable.

Im glad I posted this here as the feedback from all of you is invaluable. I was not aware that going all the way to full cave was considered to be that hardcore, I knew it was a big leap but didn't expect that it was that extreme. Cheers!

glad to hear your mentality is good. A lot of people doing zero to hero only have their goal in mind and wouldn’t call the class if overwhelmed. I personally Dove at the cavern level for a year before moving on then a year between cave 1 and 2. That time between classes allowed me to hone skills before moving on and were invaluable to me. I currently have over 200 cave dives and still learn something regularly and get more comfortable every dive.

 

[grantctobin]

I am in absolutely no rush into this neither do I want to rush a cave course. It's similar to driving into a brick wall. I am more than happy to do OC till full cave till it's the right time for CCR cave. It was just an option which I declined right out to do it all at once. I did mention I was still interested but not all in one go as it'll be too much for me to handle without a doubt.

Heck I would be scared poopless to do a 2 hour oc cave dive let alone a 3 hour CCR dive. Would you consider the cavern>intro being a better option then? I'm all ears to opinions as well as trying not to kill myself too quickly

I think you'll be far better off doing cavern+intro and spending whatever remains of your planned trip getting some more experience. Don6 and a few others disagree, but I think there's a ton of value taking your initial overhead training on open circuit as it gives a far better sense of your own mortality. If I could play training director, I'd mandate 100 intro or cave1 level dives before opening full cave/cave2 to students. Some people come into cavern and intro truly having their stuff squared, but I bet that's 1/1000 (or should be; most instructors allow **** to slide under the rug).