Cave Diving Fact Find

[Docc]

One of the biggest issues is that in the beginning of modern cave diving, we've had several people go blindly into the caves. Some died, some didn't. Those who lived, learned to do it better, safer, and developed todays equipment so that todays cave divers don't have to do so blindly, without training, without the proper equipment, without being prepared.

Why go in unprepared now? All the resources are at your fingertips to do things correctly.

Like a true IDIOT, I went into the cave at Vortex to see what I could see. The pretty lights made it very inviting and seemingly safe. My skills were good enough to not silt up the place and I had two lights. Two very little lights. Two tiny little lights. I had a nice reg on a 7' hose. My buddy had an Air2 and my backup little light. If I had a problem and needed his air it would have been a booger to get back out.

SUPRBUGman pointed out to me how dangerous a cave environment is, no matter how placid and inviting it may appear. What I saw in that beautiful environment, along with SUPRBUGmans's wise and gracious warning made me know that I wanted to see more and know that I needed proper equipment and PROPER TRAINING. I got the National Speleological Society Cave Diving Section's book "Basic Cave Diving-a blueprint for survival". The book starts each chapter with a cave diving tragedy and what caused it. The cause was almost always lack of experience,lack of training, and stupidity on the part of the diver(s). Additional research has shown me what is necessary to get back in the cave. I need a lot more experience than I have now and I need to be TRAINED AND CERTIFIED for the overhead environment. I have the goals to shoot for and it will probably be a few years before I am COMPETENT to go back in that environment. I wish I could go back and see it tomorrow. But I will be patient and dive and train until I and my dive partner are BOTH ready and prepared. Until then I'll enjoy the beauty of the caves and caverns from the great pictures and video that those certified to be there take and share with us.

I was stupid. But I'm smart enough to realize I was stupid, admit it, and be willingly to correct it. From what I know now, that I didn't know then, is that a cave is a very, very, very unforgiving place. Like the grim reaper signs point out: PEOPLE HAVE DIED HERE. NOTHING IN THIS CAVE IS WORTH YOUR LIFE.

My sincere thanks to SUPRBUGman and some others who very kindly steered me in the right direction. I hope one day in the years ahead to be able to dive the caves with them.

 

[LastMate]

There's no reason to be a afraid of most sharks(especially the ones you likely encountered in the Gulf), that fear is just an illusion in the heads of several uninformed people.

There IS a reason to be afraid of caves when you aren't trained to be in them. It doesn't matter if you head in with a Cave Diver. You aren't trained, what happens if THEY get seperated? YOU are screwed. Then some other divers get to risk their well being to fish YOU out. Then there's a strong possibility that a site can be closed to US, because your dumbass kacked yourself for being a reckless douche.

The Diving world JUST lost two good men, one without any cave training(seem familiar?) and another with very minimal training in overheads. Both are dead. Both likely took things far more maturely and seriously than you are...

You don't know your limits! You don't even know that you don't know your limits! Stay out of the caves! I don't care if you kack yourself, I care that you might kack yourself in a location that effects where I can dive.

Nice to know im so safe when it comes to sharks in the gulf cuz its just an illuision LOL next time i talk to the buddy of mine that RUNS the ISAF (International Shark Attack files) Ill tell him "ITS OK ITS JUST AN ILLUSION" I was hit twice on the 3 enounters I had. The tip of my spear gun that looks like shreds of plastic must be just an illuision right and scrapes on my tank and the busted top of my primary when I was pushed into the side of a ship by a bull "just an illision" Right? Wrong sharks are VERY dangerous. That doesnt mean go out and kill the first one you see. But RESPECT what they are and DO NOT under estamate what they can do. I have been lucky the encounters ive had. Sharks are a beautilful creatures to be seen in the open water. But just like any wild animal should be treated with great respect. Next time you hit salt water and see a shark instead of panicing or saying oh well what ever stop and watch them. Its a amazeing sight, take a picture or video but always show them the RESPECT they deserve cuz thats there area. But I guess thats where a few of your seem to LACK is the whole RESPECT thing. For those few who have show respect thanks.

 

[Dive-aholic]

...but having the Fully trained divers by my side and getting my feet wet for the first time in cave diving was truly spectaculer experance. Above is what I had said orginally that started this whole fight. I never encourge anyone to dive beyond there limits. My limits are beyond my current training but thats me and that is what drives me to further my training and continue to advance in diving. I never buy a car with out test driving it...

If you want to test drive cavern/cave diving (BTW, what you did in Vortex was a cave dive), then do it the right way. Get with a cavern instructor and have him/her take you on a guided dive safely after some minimal instruction in how to get yourself out alive should the instructor happen to die while in the cave (heart attack, etc). Tech divers/Dive Masters are not qualified to take OW divers on trust me dives into caves. The reason you've pissed so many people off here is because those are our sites. They belong to those of us who have put forth the effort to get the training and experience and work to keep access to those sites through proper land owner relations. OW divers have died at Vortex, in the Ginnie Ballroom, at Madison, at Manatee, at Peacock, etc (the list goes on) all within the past 5 years. Some of these divers were OW instructors. I love cave diving. And I have done what I need to do to properly, safely do it. I've spent the endless days/weeks and the tens of thousands of dollars required to do it properly and safely. So when divers like Joe and Yessic go into a cave system and die and result in it being closed (even though only temporarily), it pisses us off. I'll tell you what, meet me at Vortex sometime. I'll take you into the cavern zone of that system and show you just how dangerous it can be. You will survive it and get out alive, but hopefully you'll also gain a new respect for caverns and caves.

In the meantime, check out these videos on my website.

Oh, and BTW, Mat/SuPrBuGmAn is qualified to dive Vortex beyond the grate and has. Don't spout off accusations/insults about things you know nothing about. His comments about the appearance of Vortex are based on all the other cave systems he's been in that haven't been destroyed by OW divers following a light chain.

 

[LastMate]

Like a true IDIOT, I went into the cave at Vortex to see what I could see. The pretty lights made it very inviting and seemingly safe. My skills were good enough to not silt up the place and I had two lights. Two very little lights. Two tiny little lights. I had a nice reg on a 7' hose. My buddy had an Air2 and my backup little light. If I had a problem and needed his air it would have been a booger to get back out.

SUPRBUGman pointed out to me how dangerous a cave environment is, no matter how placid and inviting it may appear. What I saw in that beautiful environment, along with SUPRBUGmans's wise and gracious warning made me know that I wanted to see more and know that I needed proper equipment and PROPER TRAINING. I got the National Speleological Society Cave Diving Section's book "Basic Cave Diving-a blueprint for survival". The book starts each chapter with a cave diving tragedy and what caused it. The cause was almost always lack of experience,lack of training, and stupidity on the part of the diver(s). Additional research has shown me what is necessary to get back in the cave. I need a lot more experience than I have now and I need to be TRAINED AND CERTIFIED for the overhead environment. I have the goals to shoot for and it will probably be a few years before I am COMPETENT to go back in that environment. I wish I could go back and see it tomorrow. But I will be patient and dive and train until I and my dive partner are BOTH ready and prepared. Until then I'll enjoy the beauty of the caves and caverns from the great pictures and video that those certified to be there take and share with us.

I was stupid. But I'm smart enough to realize I was stupid, admit it, and be willingly to correct it. From what I know now, that I didn't know then, is that a cave is a very, very, very unforgiving place. Like the grim reaper signs point out: PEOPLE HAVE DIED HERE. NOTHING IN THIS CAVE IS WORTH YOUR LIFE.

My sincere thanks to SUPRBUGman and some others who very kindly steered me in the right direction. I hope one day in the years ahead to be able to dive the caves with you.

Thats how you get a point acrossed THANK YOU!!!

 

[LastMate]

If you want to test drive cavern/cave diving (BTW, what you did in Vortex was a cave dive), then do it the right way. Get with a cavern instructor and have him/her take you on a guided dive safely after some minimal instruction in how to get yourself out alive should the instructor happen to die while in the cave (heart attack, etc). Tech divers/Dive Masters are not qualified to take OW divers on trust me dives into caves. The reason you've pissed so many people off here is because those are our sites. They belong to those of us who have put forth the effort to get the training and experience and work to keep access to those sites through proper land owner relations. OW divers have died at Vortex, in the Ginnie Ballroom, at Madison, at Manatee, at Peacock, etc (the list goes on) all within the past 5 years. Some of these divers were OW instructors. I love cave diving. And I have done what I need to do to properly, safely do it. I've spent the endless days/weeks and the tens of thousands of dollars required to do it properly and safely. So when divers like Joe and Yessic go into a cave system and die and result in it being closed (even though only temporarily), it pisses us off. I'll tell you what, meet me at Vortex sometime. I'll take you into the cavern zone of that system and show you just how dangerous it can be. You will survive it and get out alive, but hopefully you'll also gain a new respect for caverns and caves.

In the meantime, check out these videos on my website.

Oh, and BTW, Mat/SuPrBuGmAn is qualified to dive Vortex beyond the grate and has. Don't spout off accusations/insults about things you know nothing about. His comments about the appearance of Vortex are based on all the other cave systems he's been in that haven't been destroyed by OW divers following a light chain.

once again thank you thats how you get the point acrossed and YES i would love to dive vortex with you and have you show me a few things!!!

 

[CuriousRambler]

Next time you hit salt water and see a shark instead of panicing or saying oh well what ever stop and watch them.

Maybe I've just been diving with the brave elite of diving, but of the 10+ encounters I've had with sharks, that's all anyone has done. Watch them, take pictures, enjoy the aquatic life in the environment we choose to visit. At worst I've heard people mention that they were nervous when they saw sharks once we were back on the boat or beach.


I'm curious as to how you're an F-22 crew chief in Florida and your myspace says you're a 35 year old woman from Vegas..

Edit: Alright, thanks for the clarification on the myspace thing, something beyond primal shark attack fear was forming inside me when I saw that..

 

[GLENFWB]

Hey Bugman, I could have swore that was you sleeping in my trailer at Vortex last month! I hate to think there is another guy that looks like you. Oh, and now that I have learned you have "no idea what your talking about" regarding caves, I guess I will have to start untangling my own reels from now on when I am coming out of Jackson Blue. Also, when you are ready to "get your facts straight instead of jumping to conclusions", I can recommend a good instructor to you....you know, the one you recommended to me!

apperently you never dove vortex seeing how you have no idea what your talking about with the view of the cave. And for the rest lets see no one has died in Vortex since the 70's and the one man that died recently had a heartattack at the entrance of the cave. nothing related to cave diving, or diving period. so once again it looks like someone else needs to get there facts straight instead of jumping to conclusions

 

[willardj]

Hey Bugman, I could have swore that was you sleeping in my trailer at Vortex last month! I hate to think there is another guy that looks like you. Oh, and now that I have learned you have "no idea what your talking about" regarding caves, I guess I will have to start untangling my own reels from now on when I am coming out of Jackson Blue. Also, when you are ready to "get your facts straight instead of jumping to conclusions", I can recommend a good instructor to you....you know, the one you recommended to me!

I was thinking the same thing about Mat. Mat and I have done several cave dives and 1 past the grate at Vortex. I would have never known that he didn't know what he was talking about. Man we need to talk more next time. Haha

 

[MBH]

I'm curious as to how you're an F-22 crew chief in Florida and your myspace says you're a 35 year old woman from Vegas..

I think I've just dislocated a rib laughing over that one!

 

[BabyDuck]

sharks are VERY dangerous. That doesnt mean go out and kill the first one you see. But RESPECT what they are and DO NOT under estamate what they can do. I have been lucky the encounters ive had. Sharks are a beautilful creatures to be seen in the open water. But just like any wild animal should be treated with great respect. Next time you hit salt water and see a shark instead of panicing or saying oh well what ever stop and watch them. Its a amazeing sight, take a picture or video but always show them the RESPECT they deserve cuz thats there area. But I guess thats where a few of your seem to LACK is the whole RESPECT thing. For those few who have show respect thanks.

ok, change the word 'shark' to 'cave'. (and any other phrases to make it make sense! ) you are *not* respecting the caves, and we're saying this same thing to *you*.