Casino Point - Avalon, Diver Death 9/5/11

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Ken, thank you for explaining how the insurance works and the various options, I appreciate it.
 
A nice idea and good of y'all, but I wonder if it'd be better for the newbies to get them to hire private DMs for those first ocean dives.

Depends on whether or not the DM has yet learned how to dive ... I know several locally who barely have the required 60 dives before they get the certification ... so even going that route will require some careful choices.

Besides, in many parts of the world, hiring a DM for a guided dive is just not common practice. In my area, mentors can and do play an important role in diver education. Most of our dive clubs have "big buddy" programs, where a new diver is "adopted" by an experienced diver for purposes of putting their newly developed skills to practical use.

But getting back to Lee's point ... if a diver feels, after completing their OW class, that they are incapable of conducting an unsupervised dive, then that is an indication that their instruction failed to meet the objectives of the class ... and they should not have been granted their certification. I don't want this to turn into another agency-bashing thread ... and it shouldn't, because the agency specifies in their standards that the student should be qualified to plan and conduct a dive within a recommended depth of 60 feet in conditions similar to those in which they were trained.

If, on the other hand, the student chooses to exceed those limitations, then the problem isn't training ... it's that the student chose to exceed their training ... and that is another issue entirely, and perhaps a worthy topic outside of this particular forum ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
If it's correct that the victim was wearing 32 lbs with a steel 80, that sounds extremely overweighted.

I heard from several sources that she had 32# of weight. However, the gear was just recently recovered so we'll have to wait until the investigation determines the actual weight she carried.

Ken... I am told that the report compiled from this and other investigations eventually becomes public domain. I know you have (wisely) counseled that we all wait until the report is issued before we state "facts" that may not be so and speculate based on them. Many in other threads of this nature have asked where these reports are made available. Can you point us in the right direction (knowing that it may be some time before this one is available.

The last death in the dive park involved a tremendous amount of speculation. People, some with personal agendas, were making comments about the instructor and what happened that turned out to be untrue. I certainly understand the need to avoid posting information that is untrue, and even true information that results in unnecessary and inaccurate speculation.
 
Depends on whether or not the DM has yet learned how to dive ... I know several locally who barely have the required 60 dives before they get the certification ... so even going that route will require some careful choices.

Besides, in many parts of the world, hiring a DM for a guided dive is just not common practice. In my area, mentors can and do play an important role in diver education. Most of our dive clubs have "big buddy" programs, where a new diver is "adopted" by an experienced diver for purposes of putting their newly developed skills to practical use.

A wise diver who is newly certified will look towards someone who is more experienced to help them gain experience, whether it be a hired DM (an option here on Catalina for a "guided dive") or buddying up with more seasoned dive buddies through a dive club or other SCUBA-related group. I think this is an excellent reason for newly certified divers to join dive clubs and seek out mentors within them who can help them gain experience.
 
I believe I heard it mentioned that the buddy at the surface said the diver was "stuck" in the water. I have seen many folks get tangled up in the kelp, and those stalks can wrap around your tank valve and other parts of your gear quite easy.
Perhaps new divers to the kelp forest should have a bit of training/briefing or education on diving in and around the kelps.
 
Iztok, what insurance do you have? I'm not a DM yet, but am working towards it at the moment, and was under the impression that the agencies insurance would cover me when guiding dives or working within my certification.

Here is the thing. My insurance is through the LDS. So if I don't work through that shop it wouldn't be covered as work. If I would offer to guide and things go south (even not being my fault) I would expose myself to liability. It is one thing to buddy up w/o me offering to be sort of a mentor/guide but in suggested case it was somewhat mentoring approach.
 
In reference to mentoring someone whether you are a dive "Pro" meaning instructor/divemaster etc..If you do NOT accept any sort of payment would that make a difference in liability?

I know in the USA that anyone can sue anyone for anything,lets not get into that discussion here.

I have taken new divers with me on many occasions and never once thought about a liability issue and will continue doing so.
 
If it's correct that the victim was wearing 32 lbs with a steel 80, that sounds extremely overweighted. I rented a steel 80 on Catalina Island and I wore 10 lbs with a 2 piece 7 mm wetsuit, hood, gloves, socks and boots. I'm not sure what the victim was wearing or what would be correct for her, but 32 lbs sounds like a lot.

If she was extremely overweighted, that would take a lot of work, air and kicking to try to maintain her position in the water column. The work to maintain position would be even more pronounced at depth and harder to control.

I think the S80 is actually an aluminum tank. Still 32 lbs does sound a bit overweighted even for a woman. Overweighting seems to be a common denominator in a lot of drowning accidents I read about.

And I don't want to harp on this but for recreational divers it's useful from the safety point of view to have the tank pressure displayed next to the depth, etc; info that you frequently look at.

Adam
 
32 lbs is not necessarily overweighted ... even for a woman. It depends on the exposure suit, type of BCD, type of cylinder, and your body composition. My ex-wife is 5'5" and about 125 lbs, and uses 32 lbs of lead with a Fusion drysuit, Mobby's undergarment and LP95 cylinder. Compare that to this woman who was using a heavy wetsuit, an aluminum cylinder that is four lbs positive when empty, and quite likely a padded BCD that also requires some weight to sink.

You need what you need ... and when you're a new diver with newly-developing skills, you tend to need a bit more. I think it's premature ... and perhaps a bit unwarranted ... to assume she was overweighted ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I work in the medical field, wouldn't you also be protected by the Good Samaritan Law?? My insurance doesnt cover outside of work either.. I would hate to think it would be different for divers being helpful..

Good Samaritan Laws protect LAYMEN, not professionals. I don't know what you do, but this is something that all professionals should keep in mind.

Mark - RN, CCEMT-P, CFRN
 

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