Can a certified cave diver escort a non cave diver

[tursiops]

What frustrates me about this discussion and hundreds more like it on a variety of topics is the assumption that nothing is worth dying for.

That death is never an acceptable outcome.

As I see it, we all die, and we should be able to choose which activities we are willing to risk our lives to do. I am only really into activities that can get me killed, the rest don't seem worth doing.

I hope you make it to 1000 posts, and have no family or friends that might grieve for you.

 

[ofg-1]

I am only really into activities that can get me killed, the rest don't seem worth doing.

Have you told your family this? "Hi mom, I am only going to go and do things that can get me killed, the rest aren't worth doing". Let me know how that goes for you.

 

[Cthippo]

Have you told your family this? "Hi mom, I am only going to go and do things that can get me killed, the rest aren't worth doing". Let me know how that goes for you.

Yes, of course I have. It's not a secret how I live my life.

 

[lostsheep]

It all good to have a very elitist I am a cave diver and know it

But It tends to make them more well known and gives status, and probably in more then one instance made them money in the long run.

I’ll preface this with I’ve been dry caving and diving for years , but I only got full cave certified about 2 years ago; I’ve been cave diving but I don’t consider myself a cave diver because I just don’t get to do it often enough.

I was trained by and have dived with those you are accusing of profiteering from recoveries whether intentionally or not, on behalf of them , because most are too humble to come here and defend themselves, that was a ****** up thing to say and I’m really good at saying ****** up things.

 

[Gone for diving]

For those who don't know much about removing bodies from a cave....

Edd Sorenson has done more than a few such recoveries. Because of what he has learned, he has constructed two harness systems, one for removing a body head first, and one for removing a body feet first. A key factor is the head, which will often fall off during the recovery.

A few years ago he and Mike Young recovered two bodies of OW divers who had gotten stuck and died deep inside a cave in the Dominican Republic. Local divers had tried to do the recovery but were unable to do so, and a long time passed before Edd and Mike were asked to help. I interviewed both about it on behalf of the NSS, and their accounts were amazing. Both bodies were bloated to the point that they were pinned to the ceiling, and they had to drape an enormous amount of weight over the bodies to pull them out. The tunnels were barely big enough for the bodies, and pulling them out took enormous effort, pulling on the harness and dragging the body an inch at a time. Edd did the pulling, with Mike at his feet, guiding him and trying to widen the pathway. When the effort required created a serious CO2 buildup, he had to lie still for extended periods of time to allow his rebreather scrubber to clear out the CO2.

That's the short version.

So that's what happens when unpaid volunteers recover the bodies of OW divers who decide they have the right and the ability to explore the deep resources of a cave.

I’ll preface this with I’ve been dry caving and diving for years , but I only got full cave certified about 2 years ago; I’ve been cave diving but I don’t consider myself a cave diver because I just don’t get to do it often enough.

I was trained by and have dived with those you are accusing of profiteering from recoveries whether intentionally or not, on behalf of them , because most are too humble to come here and defend themselves, that was a ****** up thing to say and I’m really good at saying ****** up things.

These are well known people, why?
Because they are good and capable divers and know what they are doing, and they are doing it.

If you don't like the,
[and probably in more then one instance made them money in the long run]
Like I used then, OK.

But it is a form of advertising and or branding, (NOT done on purpose or there fault, or me trying to accuse them) the recovery is a noble goal.

But It will get clicks and likes for other stuff like videos and stuff like that, maybe give more exposure for teaching etc because they are so good.
( It's just a fact now a days with the internet)

The kids stuck in a cave,
your telling me those divers didn't have any.... financial gain when it was all said and done,? you would probably be right.

But with it comes expertise,
name recognition, which translates it to some form of monetary no matter how small and how much you dont want it.
Which is not their intent or fault , it's just a fact.

Just because someone dies doesn't change the facts.

Sorry to offend everyone,

 

[lostsheep]

The difference is intent.

Elon proposed some crazy ass rescue plan in Thailand, what was his intent?

I am beyond skeptical anyone who actually carries out a recovery or rescue does it with the aftermath in mind.

It’s almost 2024, if your offended by the internet it might be too late for you (that’s the generic you)

 

[lostsheep]

I am beyond skeptical anyone who actually carries out a recovery or rescue does it with the aftermath in mind.

Totally agree,
that's what I keep trying to say,

We are not in agreement, don’t quote me and omit the opening clause to make some pseudo-strawman.

ETA: last word is yours , I’ll be reading but I’m out unless it’s just really good

 

[oya]

I'd like to take a minor objectivity break in the conversation. That is, I don't have anything further to add, per se, but I think it's valuable to really take a look at the dialog of this thread...

People who know little-to-nothing about cave diving: "We should be allowed to go die in a cave!"

Advanced cave divers/instructors: "Please, please... pretty please, with sprinkles and candied cherries and stuff... please don't. We will have to come get you."


8 pages of that.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

I tell my students and dsd clients that I'm not teaching them to dive but rather what to do if things go pear shaped.
Sure, anyone can penetrate a cave and if conditions are perfect you'll probably make it out alive and intact but you're f*cked if something goes awry.
In that case, please tie a really long rope to your ankle so they can pull your carcass out without putting themselves at risk.
Yes, we all have free choice but it should not be when it imposes on other people.

 

[ofg-1]

People who know little-to-nothing about cave diving: "We should be allowed to go die in a cave!"

Yes, and I have turned all of their screen names over to the Scuba Hazard Investigation Team, so don't be surprised if someone calls S.H.I.T. on you.