Buying mid - high end regulator vs replacing it every few years

[noctshadow]

It sounds like you've made up your mind, but just to keep the conversation going, a couple of points could be made.
1. Many people would enjoy driving the M3 over the Corolla even if it's only 5000 miles per year.
2. I expect my regulators to last my lifetime, and possibly another lifetime after that. When a regulator is serviced, all the wear items are (should be) replaced, so it should be as good as new, maybe even better.

Happy diving with shiny new regulators!
Brian

The main difference between regulators and cars is that regs are designed to last almost indefinitely, if wearable parts are periodically replaced, whilst most cars, nowadays, are designed for self destroying after 5 years or 100,000 km, which comes first.

TBH, I’m leaning toward both option 2 and 3. Have a budget regulator that I can bring to travel, and a good one that I can use for local or serious diving.

As for the regs, I agree that they can last a long time if service properly, but “lifetime” is a bit exaggerated - it really depends on many factors, such as part availability, tools, time, and skill set of yourself (or technician). Same thing can be said for a car, but harder to replace all parts due to the obvious reasons. But can it be done tho? Of course, if you have the parts and resources, as there are many classic car restoration companies. For example, Aeris went out of business in 2014 and you can’t find any parts anymore. Who’s to say scubapro or Oceanic won’t the next?

I really do appreciate the constructive opinions/feedback so far tho. Keep it coming!

 

[Bob DBF]

As for the regs, I agree that they can last a long time if service properly, but “lifetime” is a bit exaggerated...

I picked up a Sherwood Magnum in 1980 from the LDS, it was a discounted demo. I guess I put around 800 dives on it until 2008 when the dry bleed system went belly up. Granted I did work on the second stage myself, they are dirt simple, but the first never had an issue. The shop tech said I was lucky they still had parts for the first and rebuilt it.

Because of parts availability on that reg, I decided to buy another Sherwood, the Blizzard was the best deal at the time, in 2009 and have used the 1980 Magnum on my pony since then. 40 years isn't a lifetime, but it's a long time.

We could talk about the 1962 Nemrod Snark III I learned to dive with back in the day, but I only bring it out occasionally for old time sake.

 

[MichaelMc]

I think many of us here dive for the experience of it, so I'm not sure the analogy of the Corolla and M3 being equivalent for basic transport makes sense. Working divers are using scuba to get to the real work, but recreational divers are there for the experience. If I want to be able to reliably go get groceries, how the cars drive is similar for that. They go from A to B and they hold things. If I feel like going for a drive just for fun (or for a dive just for fun), those cars are very different. Going for a drive (dive) just for fun is the situation in recreational scuba.

After driving a Dinan M3 and M5, driving a Corolla will get you to the location you are driving to, but the experience and even basic functions are a pale shadow of the former. The maintenance costs on them are also much higher and I'm not sure the same performance range difference exists in scuba among decent and properly tuned regulators, but the basic transport analogy seems the wrong one.

 

[Bigbella]

I picked up a Sherwood Magnum in 1980 from the LDS, it was a discounted demo. I guess I put around 800 dives on it until 2008 when the dry bleed system went belly up. Granted I did work on the second stage myself, they are dirt simple, but the first never had an issue. The shop tech said I was lucky they still had parts for the first and rebuilt it.

Because of parts availability on that reg, I decided to buy another Sherwood, the Blizzard was the best deal at the time, in 2009 and have used the 1980 Magnum on my pony since then. 40 years isn't a lifetime, but it's a long time.

We could talk about the 1962 Nemrod Snark III I learned to dive with back in the day, but I only bring it out occasionall

I feel the same about my old Poseidon Cyklons -- the first of which I inherited in the late 1970s, the so-called "Super," from 1972 -- apparently, the first 300 bar regulator.

A Cyklon 300 is still on a bailout bottle.

With the exception of a discontinued piston (of which I found a cache, thanks to @rsingler), the service kits -- first and second stages -- are still readily available, almost five decades later . . .

 

[Bob DBF]

I feel the same about my old Poseidon Cyklons

I picked up a Cyklon in a pile of gear I bought for something else. It was free flowing and I wasn't in the mood to learn them at the time, so I found a tech in a shop in Sausalito and talked to him for quite a while about the relative worth of fixing it. I sent it to him, I could have driven but it would have been a pita, and he worked it over for $70 and sent it back. I let him know when I received it and we talked quite a while he explained what I needed to know to keep it working, that wasn't easily understandable from the manual.

It's a nice reg, and the safe second on it is a SP109, which seems to play nicely.

My problem is that I have too many vintage favorites.

 

[BRT]

I picked up a Sherwood Magnum in 1980 from the LDS, it was a discounted demo. I guess I put around 800 dives on it until 2008 when the dry bleed system went belly up. Granted I did work on the second stage myself, they are dirt simple, but the first never had an issue. The shop tech said I was lucky they still had parts for the first and rebuilt it.

Because of parts availability on that reg, I decided to buy another Sherwood, the Blizzard was the best deal at the time, in 2009 and have used the 1980 Magnum on my pony since then. 40 years isn't a lifetime, but it's a long time.

We could talk about the 1962 Nemrod Snark III I learned to dive with back in the day, but I only bring it out occasionally for old time sake.

We may dive some Sherwoods that are less than 25 years old. But I doubt it. Occasionally I service them.

 

[BRT]

I think many of us here dive for the experience of it, so I'm not sure the analogy of the Corolla and M3 being equivalent for basic transport makes sense. Working divers are using scuba to get to the real work, but recreational divers are there for the experience. If I want to be able to reliably go get groceries, how the cars drive is similar for that. They go from A to B and they hold things. If I feel like going for a drive just for fun (or for a dive just for fun), those cars are very different. Going for a drive (dive) just for fun is the situation in recreational scuba.

After driving a Dinan M3 and M5, driving a Corolla will get you to the location you are driving to, but the experience and even basic functions are a pale shadow of the former. The maintenance costs on them are also much higher and I'm not sure the same performance range difference exists in scuba among decent and properly tuned regulators, but the basic transport analogy seems the wrong one.

Your BMW service costs are lower than a Corolla?

 

[MichaelMc]

Your BMW service costs are lower than a Corolla?

I noted that the costs are much higher. I did try to use a plural pronoun to refer to the two sports sedans, I replaced an initial its with them, but there may have been some ambiguity in which was much higher. But we are comparing high-end sport sedans with extensive additional tuning modifications and a basic sedan, so I figured the ones that I was pointing out had much higher cost was clear. I was pointing it out in a 'full disclosure that there are costs' aspect, not a 'and the sportier is cheaper' unique aspect. None of them was my car.

The maintenance costs on them are also much higher and I'm not sure the same performance range difference exists in scuba among decent and properly tuned regulators, but the basic transport analogy seems the wrong one.

My point is that we are doing this for the fun experience, not to most economically get from A to B for work or the chores. So comparing regulator ownership plans (revolving door or maintaining) based on similar long term costs but disregarding possible differences of in-water experience is ignoring why you have the regulators.

 

[noctshadow]

I noted that the costs are much higher. I did try to use a plural pronoun to refer to the two sports sedans, I replaced an initial its with them, but there may have been some ambiguity in which was much higher. But we are comparing high-end sport sedans with extensive additional tuning modifications and a basic sedan, so I figured the ones that I was pointing out had much higher cost was clear. I was pointing it out in a 'full disclosure that there are costs' aspect, not a 'and the sportier is cheaper' unique aspect. None of them was my car.


My point is that we are doing this for the fun experience, not to most economically get from A to B for work or the chores. So comparing regulator ownership plans (revolving door or maintaining) based on similar long term costs but disregarding possible differences of in-water experience is ignoring why you have the regulators.

I guess the reason why I used the car analogy, was that to me (at least from a recreational diver's standpoint), is able to dive safely without the need for large investment, and the picking up groceries example was what I had in mind. I'm sure the high end reg and a M3 would be more enjoyable regardless of what type of diving/driving, but so would the maintenance cost (if not DIY). And the main point of the thread, is to see if that overall long term ownership cost would justify it, vs just buying a new one (and forget about the hassle/cost of getting it serviced). A high end reg would probably give you 10 - 20% easier breathing under deep/cold water, but above 80 feet, I don't think the difference would be noticeable, if any (correct me if I'm wrong since I've only heard this from others, as I don't own a high end one). And for those of us who live in a small apartment with limited space, DIY might not work since we don't have space to store a tank.

I think the car analogy can be applied to regs perfectly. There are people who loves driving sporty cars like M3 whether to work (diving for work), racing (technical diving) or groceries (recreational diving). And there are people who likes to have a low maintenance, reliable car from point A to point B just for weekend groceries. Over half of the experienced recreational divers whom I've met on dive trips still use rentals. They still enjoy diving as much as those who has their own gears. Then there are those like @Bob DBF who likes to drive his '68 Mustang (vintage regs) for any activities.

 

[noctshadow]

I picked up a Cyklon in a pile of gear I bought for something else. It was free flowing and I wasn't in the mood to learn them at the time, so I found a tech in a shop in Sausalito and talked to him for quite a while about the relative worth of fixing it. I sent it to him, I could have driven but it would have been a pita, and he worked it over for $70 and sent it back. I let him know when I received it and we talked quite a while he explained what I needed to know to keep it working, that wasn't easily understandable from the manual.

It's a nice reg, and the safe second on it is a SP109, which seems to play nicely.

My problem is that I have too many vintage favorites.

Bob, how do you keep up with maintenance on all those regs?! And from your experience, do you notice any difference in terms of breathability between an old (over 2 decades ago) reg vs a modern budget one vs a modern high end one (like the Atomic or Scubapro ones)?