NWBoiler
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How many of you guys that dive dry were taught to control your buoyancy using your drysuit? Have you continued to use your drysuit or do you use your BC?
Buoyancy Drysuit vs BC
- Thread starter NWBoiler
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Please please please please do a search. This comes up several times a month, always results in a slanging match and is never a sensible discussion.
We really dont need this topic yet again.
We really dont need this topic yet again.
As a general overview of the argument to come...
1. Using the drysuit works fine IF you are:
A. properly weighted,
B. have a properly fitting drysuit, and
C. are using a single "normal" sized tank with a reasonable 5-6 lb swing weight.
2. Statement Number 1 offends many divers who have been trained to use the wing for bouyancy control exclusively and are well indoctrinated to add only enough air to the suit to offset squeeze. They see Number 1 as "uncool" and very bad form bordering on the sacreligious.
3. If you dive doubles, carry deco/stage bottles, etc, Number 1 will in fact NOT work well as it requires too much air in the suit to offset the greater negative bouyancy consistent with those configurations. The extra air makes the suit hard to control. That will REQUIRE you to add the extra gas needed to be neutral to the wing.
1, 2 and 3 are based on my 15 years of practical experience dry suit diving in both single tank and technical configurations. In my opinion, that means a lot more than something someone read in a book or learned in a course somewhere.
My advice is to just go dive and start off adding gas to the suit. If you find you need more gas in the suit than is stable and controllable, just vent it until it is comfortable, controllable and stable and then add what you need to achieve neutral bouyancy to the wing. It's an incredibly simple approach. If Number 1 works for you, fine. If not, you'll be doing Number 3 by default and will end up with enough air in the suit to be comfy, warm and unsqueezed with the rest of the gas in the wing.
Perhaps most imortantly you will not be spouting Number 2 because someone told you that, and you will instead be doing what works best for you because it actually works best for you.
1. Using the drysuit works fine IF you are:
A. properly weighted,
B. have a properly fitting drysuit, and
C. are using a single "normal" sized tank with a reasonable 5-6 lb swing weight.
2. Statement Number 1 offends many divers who have been trained to use the wing for bouyancy control exclusively and are well indoctrinated to add only enough air to the suit to offset squeeze. They see Number 1 as "uncool" and very bad form bordering on the sacreligious.
3. If you dive doubles, carry deco/stage bottles, etc, Number 1 will in fact NOT work well as it requires too much air in the suit to offset the greater negative bouyancy consistent with those configurations. The extra air makes the suit hard to control. That will REQUIRE you to add the extra gas needed to be neutral to the wing.
1, 2 and 3 are based on my 15 years of practical experience dry suit diving in both single tank and technical configurations. In my opinion, that means a lot more than something someone read in a book or learned in a course somewhere.
My advice is to just go dive and start off adding gas to the suit. If you find you need more gas in the suit than is stable and controllable, just vent it until it is comfortable, controllable and stable and then add what you need to achieve neutral bouyancy to the wing. It's an incredibly simple approach. If Number 1 works for you, fine. If not, you'll be doing Number 3 by default and will end up with enough air in the suit to be comfy, warm and unsqueezed with the rest of the gas in the wing.
Perhaps most imortantly you will not be spouting Number 2 because someone told you that, and you will instead be doing what works best for you because it actually works best for you.
DA,
I've seen you post before about the being weighted properly and can use just the drysuit. I think you mention this with using a neoprene suit, but in im experience this is just not possible.
For me, once the suit compresses at depth the amount of air I needed to add was extremely uncomfortable. I know how to weigh myself properly and I was..all air out of my suit when doing it too.
It's just not practical in my eyes and to use the BC is...much more comfortable.
J
I've seen you post before about the being weighted properly and can use just the drysuit. I think you mention this with using a neoprene suit, but in im experience this is just not possible.
For me, once the suit compresses at depth the amount of air I needed to add was extremely uncomfortable. I know how to weigh myself properly and I was..all air out of my suit when doing it too.
It's just not practical in my eyes and to use the BC is...much more comfortable.
J
There is no board rule that requires anyone to read or re-read any thread that they find redundant, repetitive, or that repeats itself over and over and again and again...etc, etc...
BTW - DA your post was informative and concise, thanks.
BTW - DA your post was informative and concise, thanks.
RonFrank
Contributor
I was not taught this, rather I have tried both ways, and find that:
1. The suit when used for buoyancy control can trap air (especially in the legs).
2. The suit does not vent air as easily as the BC. To vent quickly one must compress into a ball and squeeze it out.
3. The venting control on the suit is a bit more tricky to manage. IOW's close down the vent at depth, and then one must remember to open it during ascent. But if you open it too far, it may dump more air then desired.
4. The BCD is designed for buoyancy control, so why would one NOT use if for that purpose. I think the saying is BCD's are used to control Buoyancy, and drysuits are used for exposure protection. Why would one want to use an exposure suit as a BCD?
5. The BCD will vent air more easily, and I think one has more fine control.
6. The BCD does not trap air as easily even if my Ranger is prone to do so.
I don't really add a ton of air to maintain buoyancy control, so my biggest mistake on my first couple of dry dives was to add too much air to the suit.
Now I just put in a few squirts as I descend to keep the squeeze down, and then dive as I normally do which means I use my lungs for finetuning the buoyancy, my BC to stop the initial sink (if necessary) when I am getting near my target depth, and a bit of air in the drysuit just to maintain comfort.
The trick is to add air to the suit often when decending before adding air to the BC. If you wait until you are at 75feet with an 80foot bottom, and sinking to fast, and then start to add air to the suit to eliminate squeeze, you are going to hit the bottom before you can get your buoyancy under control. So I add a squirt every time I start to feel a squeeze, and then add air to my BC as I would normally dive. Once at the target depth, I may add another squirt to the suit if I feel vacuum packed after stopping my decent with my BC and lungs.
I use a Bare-Nexgen if that makes a difference. I think diving Neo maybe a bit more effort as it's a more buoyant suit, however I have not dove a Neo suit, so I'm basing the last comment on discussion with others.
A more important question for a new Drysuit diver maybe what do I do if I end up with air trapped in the legs? This can result in an upside down out of control ascent if one is not careful. What I've found that works is to tuck, and roll. Make sure the vent is open so air can escape.
Another important question is where should I set my valve. I'd suggest for new dry divers wide open if using the BCD for buoyancy, and full closed if using the suit for buoyancy. I now dive with it about half way open, and I use my BC for buoyancy.
1. The suit when used for buoyancy control can trap air (especially in the legs).
2. The suit does not vent air as easily as the BC. To vent quickly one must compress into a ball and squeeze it out.
3. The venting control on the suit is a bit more tricky to manage. IOW's close down the vent at depth, and then one must remember to open it during ascent. But if you open it too far, it may dump more air then desired.
4. The BCD is designed for buoyancy control, so why would one NOT use if for that purpose. I think the saying is BCD's are used to control Buoyancy, and drysuits are used for exposure protection. Why would one want to use an exposure suit as a BCD?
5. The BCD will vent air more easily, and I think one has more fine control.
6. The BCD does not trap air as easily even if my Ranger is prone to do so.
I don't really add a ton of air to maintain buoyancy control, so my biggest mistake on my first couple of dry dives was to add too much air to the suit.
Now I just put in a few squirts as I descend to keep the squeeze down, and then dive as I normally do which means I use my lungs for finetuning the buoyancy, my BC to stop the initial sink (if necessary) when I am getting near my target depth, and a bit of air in the drysuit just to maintain comfort.
The trick is to add air to the suit often when decending before adding air to the BC. If you wait until you are at 75feet with an 80foot bottom, and sinking to fast, and then start to add air to the suit to eliminate squeeze, you are going to hit the bottom before you can get your buoyancy under control. So I add a squirt every time I start to feel a squeeze, and then add air to my BC as I would normally dive. Once at the target depth, I may add another squirt to the suit if I feel vacuum packed after stopping my decent with my BC and lungs.
I use a Bare-Nexgen if that makes a difference. I think diving Neo maybe a bit more effort as it's a more buoyant suit, however I have not dove a Neo suit, so I'm basing the last comment on discussion with others.
A more important question for a new Drysuit diver maybe what do I do if I end up with air trapped in the legs? This can result in an upside down out of control ascent if one is not careful. What I've found that works is to tuck, and roll. Make sure the vent is open so air can escape.
Another important question is where should I set my valve. I'd suggest for new dry divers wide open if using the BCD for buoyancy, and full closed if using the suit for buoyancy. I now dive with it about half way open, and I use my BC for buoyancy.
Paitence is one thing but in any vocation youd expect people to actually check things and not repeatedly ask the same thing over and over again. With literally hundreds of posts answering an idential question why would this thread by any different to those?
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