Breathing rate, air integrated computers and DCI correlation

[GrimSleeper]

Conservatively! The Uwatec computer's have a dive plan mode. It will give you depth & time allowed based on a square profile. Almost all rec. dives today use a multi-level profile. As you ascend your No Stop time will increase allowing a diver more bottom time. However, if a diver has significant increased workload, the No Stop time will be affected & less total bottom time will be allowed.
WoW! I'm glad that you noticed. After I submitted that post, I took a quick hike. I was trying to calculate how many years that I had been using this tool of downloading air integrated dive computers minus how many years GrimSleeper has been diving. Then, I realized my mistake. I was off by a decade.

I knew I had been using this tool for 15 years, not 5 years. Nine more years than GrimSleeper had been getting wet!

But at least he is stuck diving in one of the most incredible places in the world.

I knew by his high instructor numbers, that he is new to the game.

Really? That's where this goes?

You're a great one for selective quoting, aren't you? Clearly you've looked at my profile, which says six-ten years diving. Except that was when I signed up to SB, which was half-a-dozen years ago. So, as with your argument regarding AI computers saving the world, very selective use of information and some unsupported extrapolations appear to be the order of the day.

Make all the snide insinuations you want. I'm not the one trying to flog expensive computers as the solution to a 'problem' that has a range of simple answers which are skill based rather than gizmo based. If you think you need to belittle me to keep your sales - or your ego - up, feel free.

Click here for bluster and evasion!

 

[herbdb]

Uwatec clearly explains how and why they modify nitrogen loading estimates by monitoring changes in respiration.

If you disagree, take it up with them.

If you own one of their computers and don't like it, then turn the feature off.

If you are someone who is able to increase workload without increasing respiration or are prone to hyperventilation, then you should definitely not use this feature.

No dogs here.

 

[phoenix31tt]

Uwatec clearly explains how and why they modify nitrogen loading estimates by monitoring changes in respiration.

If you disagree, take it up with them.

If you own one of their computers and don't like it, then turn the feature off.

If you are someone who is able to increase workload without increasing respiration or are prone to hyperventilation, then you should definitely not use this feature.

No dogs here.

and after you say all that...





Can you please tell me, how does BREATHING RATE affect dci lol... Which is the point of the thread...





As I said before, a feature on a computer isn't evidence or even a valid reason for suggesting such...



worst of all ..According to your post, The computer is estimating workload based on breathing, which is flawed... At least the heart rate would've been a better guess











Sent from my Nokia Lumia using Tapatalk

 

[GrimSleeper]

No dogs here.

No dogs here either, believe it or not. I just tried to address an apparent misconception, but appear to have rattled a chain or two.

It's none of my concern what computer people want to use - like I said earlier, there's nothing wrong with the Galileo and a lot right with it. I just question whether one particular feature has the value claimed for it. The same could be said about a lot of diving kit.

 

[herbdb]

Can you please tell me, how does BREATHING RATE affect dci lol... Which is the point of the thread...

As I said before, a feature on a computer isn't evidence or even a valid reason for suggesting such...

worst of all ..According to your post, The computer is estimating workload based on breathing, which is flawed... At least the heart rate would've been a better guess

Sent from my Nokia Lumia using Tapatalk

The computer uses one of the following as indicators of increased workload:
increases in respitation rate
increases in heartrate
the highest of either
the lowest of either

Or it can use nothing.

I am not sure everyone is clear on what constitutes DCI. This is a good source:

-------------
The Difference Between DCS and DCI



Most divers do not know there is a difference between Decompression Sickness (DCS) and Decompression Illness (DCI). There is a large difference.

First we must define what we mean by DCS. There is an overall term called Decompression Illness (DCI) which most divers get confused and call decompression sickness (DCS), the same. No it is not the same. DCI is the over all term that has 2 subjects below it: 1) DCS and 2) Lung Over expansion Injuries.

DCS refers to the conditions caused by inert nitrogen gas coming out of solution within the body. Lung Over expansion Injuries refer to those injuries that are caused by holding your breath on ascent.

There are basically 2 types of DCS: Type I deal with skin and pain only which would include the sub type a) Cutaneous DCS and b) Joint and limb pain DCS. While Type II covers the more life-threatening which are the c) neurological DCS and d) Pulmonary DCS.

----------

The Uwatec model estimates the potential for DCS Type I by using sensors. This is one form of DCI.

 

[ianr33]

Uwatec clearly explains how and why they modify nitrogen loading estimates by monitoring changes in respiration.

No they don't !

If I use twice as much gas on a particular dive how much does my NDL decrease?

And another question: Let's suppose a diver has a SAC of 0.5. How does the computer know if that's a 400 pound guy in a zen like trance, or an 80 pound female working her butt off?

 

[redacted]

How much must one pay for scuba snake oil?

 

[herbdb]

The computer samples the breathing rate early in the dive, then looks for increased rate. It is not using volume and has nothing to do with SAC rate. How much does it change NDL, I have no idea.

How much does swimming over a 20' coral head change the NDL. I don't know that either. They don't matter. This is simply one tool that a diver can add or leave out of the dive computation.

Please tell me you don't think any computer or dive table can accurately predict DCI. They are all someone's guess.

I am an old, fat guy. I use conservative factors in my computer and dive appropriate gas mixes to minimize chances of DCI as much as possible. If the computer cuts my dive a little shorter by using these factors, oh well, I'll hopefully be there for the next dive.

 

[beaverdivers]

Heart rate measurement for better workload assessment during diving:


SCUBAPRO - Heart Rate Monitoring & Diving

 

[supergaijin]

Am I writing a thesis here?

No need to write long replies... however you have come out with some incorrect assertions in this thread.

The information I provided was from the manufacturer of a product line that has been in production for 18 years. Yes this does not provide the empirical data you demand, it also hasn't produced a pile of dead bodies. While that doesn't prove success it does disprove failure. I'm sure the information that scubapro cites for this benefit is sales driven as is all product information.

No modern diving computers produce a pile of dead bodies. Your argument is irrelevant.

My observations are based on 51 years of living are this. Volume or rate or however you wish to phrase it are directly proportionally to the amount of gas dissolved in blood. My empirical proof of this is irrefutable. You don't breathe you die. You breathe too fast you pass out.

Not breathing= no oxygen= death. Breathing too quickly/shallowly leads to a reduction of CO2, an increase in calcium and constriction of the brain's blood vessels which drops oxygen supply. This has nothing to do with the inert gases that are responsible for DCS.

So the rate/volume is related. These examples are out of the normal respiration range which is what this thread was originally about. Fast shallow respiration, and DCS.

Two different things. Shallow breathing alone doesn't affect Nitrogen diffusion- the N loading and release. Increased metabolism increases perfusion which can result in higher N-loading especially at depth in the 'fast tissues'. This is why many modern computers have settings for 'higher workloads'. Other computers are so conservative anyway that they don't even bother with this.

I changed my mind I am not playing your game any longer. I don't respect your opinion enough to care if you demand proof.

I think you're just opting out because you're flat out wrong about your "irrefutable proof based on 51 years of living." It is refutable, and pretty simple at that with a bit of knowledge on the subject. Get a
copy of 'Deco for Divers' and have a read.