Breathing rate, air integrated computers and DCI correlation

[herbdb]

I agree that heart rate monitoring would be best, but I have a Luna and am too cheap to buy the upgrade, plus I would probably be too lazy to wear the monitor all of the time. Using respiration is just easy.

 

[JohnN]

Heart rate measurement for better workload assessment during diving:


SCUBAPRO - Heart Rate Monitoring & Diving

So Dr. Uwe Hoffmann, is this the famed German from the International Consultancy of Organic Viticulture ?

und

Dr. Tobais Drager, CEO Diving Consultant Grouop ?


With nary a paper or study cited?

If you weren't being paid to drink this kool-aid, would you?
[h=1][/h]

 

[herbdb]

Nope, probably this guy

1982-1984 Doctoral Degree, Sports sciences German Sport University, Germany​

1977-1982 Mathematics Universität of Cologne, Germany​

1976-1980 Diplomsportlehrer, Sports sciences German Sport University Cologne, Germany​

Publications (Selected)

1. Hoffmann, U., Schöllmann, C., Wackerhage, H., Leyk, D., Wenzel, J. "Effects of chronically increased ambient CO2 concentrations on aerobic capacity" Aviat Space Environ Med, Vol. 69, p. 397-402, 1998.
2. Elliott, A., Prisk, G., Schöllmann, C., Hoffmann, U. "Hypercapnic Ventilatory Response in Humans Before, During, and After 23 Days of Low Level CO2 Exposure" Aviat Space Environ Med, Vol. 69, p: 391-396, 1998.
3. Leyk, D., Hoffmann, U., Baum, K., Wackerhage, H., Essfeld, D. "Leg blood flow during slow head-down tilt with and without leg venous congestion" Eur J Appl Physiol, Vol. 78, No. 6, p:538-543, 1998.
4. Kusenbach, G., Wieching, R., Barker, M., Hoffmann, U., Essfeld, D. "Effects of hyperoxia on oxygen uptake kinetics in cystic fibrosis patients as determined by pseudo-random binary sequence exercise" Eur J Appl Physiol, Vol. 79, p: 192-196, 1999.
5. Wackerhage, H., Hoffmann, U., Essfeld, D., Leyk, D., Mueller, K., Zange, J. "Recovery of free ADP, Pi and free energy of ATP hydrolysis in human skeletal muscle" J Appl Physiol, Vol. 85, No. 6, p: 2140-2145, 1998.
6. Hoffmann, U., Smerecnik, M., Buttgereit, P., Leyk, D. "Combined influences of breath-hold, Valsalva maneuver, and intensitive exercise on heart rate and blood pressure" 2001.
7. Essfeld, D., Hoffmann, U., Leyk, D., Baum, K. "Effects of reduced physical activity" In: ECSS, Vol. 6, p: 1034, 2001.
8. Hoffmann, U., Leyk, D., Essfeld, D. "Determination of VO2 kinetics and the influence of venous return" In: ECSS, Vol. 6, p: 111, 2001.
9. Keskinen, K.L., Rodriguez, F.A., Kusch, M., Hoffmann, U. "Validity of breath-by-breath spirometric measurements with two swimming snorkels assessed by a gas exchange simultation system" In: Proceedings of the IX world symposium biomechanic and Med. In swimming. Saint-Etienne, 2002.
10. Hoffmann, U., Kusch, M., Keskinen, K.L., Rodriguez, F.A. "Validity of breath-by-breath metabolic cart assesed by a gas exchange simulation system. In: ECSS, Vol. 7, 2002.
11. Kusch, M., Keskinen, K.L., Rodriguez, F.A., Hoffmann, U. "Validierung und Kalibrierung von Spirometern durch einen Gasaustauschsimualtor mittels verschiedener Prüfprotokolle" In: Tagungsband zu 2. Workshop Sporttechnologie zwischen Theorie und Praxis, Chemnitz, 2002.
12. Kusch, M., Vogt, A., Hoffmann, U. "Quality control of various Ergospirometric measuring Parameters by means of a gas exchange simulation system" Jounal f. Kardiologie, Vol. 10, No. 9, p: 405, 2003.
13. Smerecnik, M., Hoffmann, U., Leyk, D. "Cardiovascular responses to apnea and exercise" In: Clinical Autonomic Research, Vol. 13, No. 1, p: 61, 2003.
14. Smerecnik, M., Hoffmann, U., Leyk, D. "Heart rate and blood pressure responses to apnea and exercise. In: ECSS,Vol. 8, p: 139, 2003.
15. Kusch, M., Vogt, A., Hoffmann, U. "Quality control of various ergospirometric measuring parameters by means of a gas exchange simulating system. In: ECSS, Vol. 8, p: 407, 2003

Dr Tobias Dreger Director of Aqua Med. -here is a link to an article about collaboration between PADI Europe and Aqua Med
http://www.padi.com/scuba/news-events/default.aspx?id=16412

Your google needs some work.

 

[phoenix31tt]

And still, I haven't seen anyone post anything substantial that BREATHING RATE has any impact on DCI


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[GrimSleeper]

So Dr. Uwe Hoffmann, is this the famed German from the International Consultancy of Organic Viticulture ?

und

Dr. Tobais Drager, CEO Diving Consultant Grouop ?


With nary a paper or study cited?

If you weren't being paid to drink this kool-aid, would you?

Dunno about the kool-aid, but the wine's probably not bad?

I'm guessing there's more than one Uwe Hoffmann in Germany. Oh, herbdb already found him. Not much in the way of actual diving medicine in that thar list, but credentials, nonetheless.

On the other hand, I just skim read the entire leaflet. Eight million pages of glossy diagrams and slightly idiosyncratic text and it appears to contain one reference to N2 uptake, one reference to calculating decompression and one reference to increasing viscosity due to dehydration leading to a risk of embolism. Not exactly an all-encompassing reference work regarding respiratory rate, heart rate and DCS risk...

---------- Post added September 9th, 2013 at 01:33 PM ----------

And still, I haven't seen anyone post anything substantial that BREATHING RATE has any impact on DCI


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That would be because it, erm, doesn't. Which is why we've suddenly switched to heart-rate monitoring.

I was going to leave all this alone, really I was, but it's been at least a couple of hours since anybody's accused me of not knowing what I was talking about on the basis of when I decided to become a tec instructor and thus having a high instructor number, so I'm feeling a bit left out. I'm hoping to be accused of being a Luddite before the day is out. Then I can go for a beer secure in the knowledge of a job well done.

 

[WB2GLP]

Whats your beef? None of this is an exact science.

I have no problem with a computer that further limits dive time based on workload. It could base calculations on a pre dive shake of the Magic 8 Ball for all I care.

My beef is the assertion that rate of respiration was the cause of the original hit back in the 90s rather than two dives to 60 ft for over an hour each. That's not raising a red flag? Based on tables, she exceeded NDLs. I would call that provocative.

 

[CT Sean]

And still, I haven't seen anyone post anything substantial that BREATHING RATE has any impact on DCI


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And just for the sake of clarity, BREATHING RATE isn't even the topic -On the assumption that breathing rate is a measure of the VOLUME of gas breathed over a period of time (i.e. .4 cfm). he claim is that BREATHING FREQUENCY -the amount of breaths over time gave her "the bends". According to the original post, the BREATHING RATE was in-line for an average diver, however her BREATHING FREQUENCY was higher - she breathed the same amount of gas, just used more breaths to do it.

Additionally, the claim was made

After her "hit", she was able to correct her breathing by using an air integrated dive computer

How exactly did her AI computer do this? Why wasn't she capable of doing this on her own.

 

[ianr33]

The computer samples the breathing rate early in the dive, then looks for increased rate.

How does it handle a winter cave dive in Florida?

Tanks have been in a cold truck overnight. Put them in a warm spring and the pressure increases i.e a negative breathing rate

 

[WB2GLP]

Why wasn't she capable of doing this on her own.

I thik what BD is trying to say is that the Galileo enabled her to visualize the issue during the dive on the display and also after the dive while reviewing the downloaded data.

 

[herbdb]

Breathing rate (and/or heart rate) is used by Uwatec as an indicator of workload. It has nothing to do with volume. You may not agree, but thats what they are using. Workload IS considered a factor in DCI. This is why the tables tell you to use a deeper planned depth when planning a high workload dive. If you don't agree, don't make the adjustment in the computer or with the tables.

This feature in the computer is an attempt to apply the same type of adjustment on the fly when it happens unexpectedly during a dive and only for the duration of the event. Some computers allow you to apply a similar correction for the entire dive by turning on a conservative factor.

I just don't understand the outrage in this thread. DCI is pretty much a grey area. Some people are more susceptible than others. We don't know why. Do micro bubbles matter? How much? We use the tables and algorithims we have because they have proven to work for most people most of the time.