Popeye
Contributor
James Goddard once bubbled...
You should see Popeye go in a forum where he is not restricted by the censorship of moderators.
It is, at times, really quite impressive.
I think they're begining to get the Jolly Rodger...
Breathing off the BC
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I think they're begining to get the Jolly Rodger...
CobaltWave
Guest
Here is an article from Naui.Org Reading room. It's focus about why not to breathe from you BC.
http://www.naui.org/pdffiles/bc-air.pdf
In short its states, "Don't Breathe from your BC." However if its the only thing around, IMO, I'd take my chances with it.
http://www.naui.org/pdffiles/bc-air.pdf
In short its states, "Don't Breathe from your BC." However if its the only thing around, IMO, I'd take my chances with it.
fins wake
Guest
I've already agreed privately not to continue this thread, and as I feel all relevant points have been made and this is just getting silly, this will indeed be the last one from me. (Yes, I'll leave you to comment on this, Popeye, and get the last word, I promise.)
I can't but help to comment on the Momsen Lung comment, though. I know the Momsen Lung well and this extends to its grandfather, the Davis Submerged Escape Apparatus (DSEA) and its Italian 1930s derivates. I grew up on Boy's Own stories of Lt. Lionel Crabb RNVR and his daring exploits and of Stoker First Class John Capes' amazing self-rescue from the Perseus on December 6 1941 when she sank in the Med ...
Anyway, all of these were rebreathers ... the scrubber does matter, you see ... there is no scrubber in a BCD.
However, you might want to read up on the American Heritage of Invention and Technology, summer 1986 issue. It pertains to our discussion of what to do if the brown stuff really hits the fan and is to be found on pages 44-49 ... It is entitled "Why the best technology for escaping from a submarine is no technology."
Anybody wishing to discuss the Perseus or the Poseidon or the daring exploits of Italian Flotilla X in Gibraltar and Alexandria is welcome to do so on the "All about Rebreathers" section of this board. But I won't discuss the BCD breathing further. It's time to kill this thread.
I can't but help to comment on the Momsen Lung comment, though. I know the Momsen Lung well and this extends to its grandfather, the Davis Submerged Escape Apparatus (DSEA) and its Italian 1930s derivates. I grew up on Boy's Own stories of Lt. Lionel Crabb RNVR and his daring exploits and of Stoker First Class John Capes' amazing self-rescue from the Perseus on December 6 1941 when she sank in the Med ...
Anyway, all of these were rebreathers ... the scrubber does matter, you see ... there is no scrubber in a BCD.
However, you might want to read up on the American Heritage of Invention and Technology, summer 1986 issue. It pertains to our discussion of what to do if the brown stuff really hits the fan and is to be found on pages 44-49 ... It is entitled "Why the best technology for escaping from a submarine is no technology."
Anybody wishing to discuss the Perseus or the Poseidon or the daring exploits of Italian Flotilla X in Gibraltar and Alexandria is welcome to do so on the "All about Rebreathers" section of this board. But I won't discuss the BCD breathing further. It's time to kill this thread.
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
We are fortunate here in the us to have the NEDU, Navy Experimental Diving Unit, in Canama City Florida. These brave men and women test procedures and extend science in the diving field. They are responsible for the current submarine excape procedures and have remarkable skill in this area. There was a spill on discovery channel recently about this.
Ed
Popeye
Contributor
I've already agreed privately not to continue this thread,
Ah, back-channel strategizing with the cabal, the "old boy" network.
"Keep your hands and feet away from his mouth...."
And yes, retreat -does- seem your best course of action..
Plenty more cars to rocket into that ravine.
and as I feel all relevant points have been made, and this is just getting silly, this will indeed be the last one from me. (Yes, I'll leave you to comment on this, Popeye, and get the last word, I promise.)
This, of course, being your last word.
Again.
But thanks, reverse psyche doesn't work too well on me.
I can't but help to comment on the Momsen Lung comment, though.,<snip> Anyway, all of these were rebreathers ... the scrubber does matter, you see ... there is no scrubber in a BCD.
And there's a difference between a few breaths, and an exit through an escape trunk at 300 fsw. The bottom line is, the use of a momsen lung more parallels my method than yours, period, and, IIRC, you brought it up anyway.
However, you might want to read up on the American Heritage of Invention and Technology, summer 1986 issue. It pertains to our discussion of what to do if the brown stuff really hits the fan and is to be found on pages 44-49 ... It is entitled "Why the best technology for escaping from a submarine is no technology."
Sounds cutting edge, thanks, but I have to wash my hair tonight.
It's time to kill this thread.
We've heard that before.
I suggest an idea, not new, not mine, that, if studied and practiced, may be a last ditch effort at survival.
An idea that you say you might even try, but that isn't suitable for the peons.
I can take the petty resistance, chest colds, confusion, who's on first, agency partisanship, but, when a certain group of divers assume they're superior to the masses in skill, judgement, and experience, to the point where they feel that they should make decisions for the uncapable unwashed, I start looking for the spinach.
"I've had all I can stands, and I can't stands no more...."
A certified diver has assumed responsability for himself. You can't complain about hand holding and deficient skills, then insist that most divers shouldn't make these types of decisions for themselves (while, of course, you're capable of doing so....).
I leave you with the first simple post, before everyone's knickers were a-wedge:
"I practice ESAs from 70 ft regularly, and have done them from 90.
Not too hard when you practice, and it's not a total surprise...
But practicing is better than planning on it not happening.
You've recieved several good answers, I'll give you some food for thought.
I also practice breathing my BC (wing).
It has the same gas in it you were breathing moments ago.
You'll only need a breath or two to make it 75 ft. up.
You might want to get a little out to slow your final ascent.
If you keep your lungs from trying to spasm, it frees up mental resources to deal with other problems.__________________
Popeye"
Ah, back-channel strategizing with the cabal, the "old boy" network.
"Keep your hands and feet away from his mouth...."
And yes, retreat -does- seem your best course of action..
Plenty more cars to rocket into that ravine.
and as I feel all relevant points have been made, and this is just getting silly, this will indeed be the last one from me. (Yes, I'll leave you to comment on this, Popeye, and get the last word, I promise.)
This, of course, being your last word.
Again.
But thanks, reverse psyche doesn't work too well on me.
I can't but help to comment on the Momsen Lung comment, though.,<snip> Anyway, all of these were rebreathers ... the scrubber does matter, you see ... there is no scrubber in a BCD.
And there's a difference between a few breaths, and an exit through an escape trunk at 300 fsw. The bottom line is, the use of a momsen lung more parallels my method than yours, period, and, IIRC, you brought it up anyway.
However, you might want to read up on the American Heritage of Invention and Technology, summer 1986 issue. It pertains to our discussion of what to do if the brown stuff really hits the fan and is to be found on pages 44-49 ... It is entitled "Why the best technology for escaping from a submarine is no technology."
Sounds cutting edge, thanks, but I have to wash my hair tonight.
It's time to kill this thread.
We've heard that before.
I suggest an idea, not new, not mine, that, if studied and practiced, may be a last ditch effort at survival.
An idea that you say you might even try, but that isn't suitable for the peons.
I can take the petty resistance, chest colds, confusion, who's on first, agency partisanship, but, when a certain group of divers assume they're superior to the masses in skill, judgement, and experience, to the point where they feel that they should make decisions for the uncapable unwashed, I start looking for the spinach.
"I've had all I can stands, and I can't stands no more...."
A certified diver has assumed responsability for himself. You can't complain about hand holding and deficient skills, then insist that most divers shouldn't make these types of decisions for themselves (while, of course, you're capable of doing so....).
I leave you with the first simple post, before everyone's knickers were a-wedge:
"I practice ESAs from 70 ft regularly, and have done them from 90.
Not too hard when you practice, and it's not a total surprise...
But practicing is better than planning on it not happening.
You've recieved several good answers, I'll give you some food for thought.
I also practice breathing my BC (wing).
It has the same gas in it you were breathing moments ago.
You'll only need a breath or two to make it 75 ft. up.
You might want to get a little out to slow your final ascent.
If you keep your lungs from trying to spasm, it frees up mental resources to deal with other problems.__________________
Popeye"
Currently, there is no agency within my ken that either, teaches, encourages or even condones bladder breathing during an ESA due to an OOA. This includes, but is not limited to NAUI, PADI, YMCA, GUE, SSI, etc. I am sure that BlackNet could check to see if this is an NOAA approved method or not. This concept has been around since at LEAST the early 90s so the agencies have had plenty of time to evaluate it and have obviously found it lacking.
Also, I know of no instructors who teach, encourage or condone bladder breathing during an ESA due to an OOA. None. Some have even come out within this thread opposed to this concept.
Furthermore, we have had testimony from medical doctors as the dangers inherent in such a maneuver. I currently know of no doctors who perform, encourage or condone bladder breathing during an ESA due to an OOA either. There has to be something to this.
So please, for your own safety, evaluate just who is promoting this method before you try it. I don't know their agenda for doing this, and frankly don't care. As an instructor I would not want anyone to be harmed trying this risky procedure. You definitely won't catch me putting my life at risk trying it out.
Of course, I post this knowing full well that there might be some wanting to twist everything that I say. What their real agenda is can only be guessed at.
Also, I know of no instructors who teach, encourage or condone bladder breathing during an ESA due to an OOA. None. Some have even come out within this thread opposed to this concept.
Furthermore, we have had testimony from medical doctors as the dangers inherent in such a maneuver. I currently know of no doctors who perform, encourage or condone bladder breathing during an ESA due to an OOA either. There has to be something to this.
So please, for your own safety, evaluate just who is promoting this method before you try it. I don't know their agenda for doing this, and frankly don't care. As an instructor I would not want anyone to be harmed trying this risky procedure. You definitely won't catch me putting my life at risk trying it out.
Of course, I post this knowing full well that there might be some wanting to twist everything that I say. What their real agenda is can only be guessed at.
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
People! People! We are beating a dead horse here, give it a rest. I see allot of testosterone on the rise here and this is way too morbid. This has turned into a my _whatever_ is bigger/better than your _whatever_
Ed
People! People! We are beating a dead horse here, give it a rest. I see allot of testosterone on the rise here and this is way too morbid. This has turned into a my _whatever_ is bigger/better than your _whatever_
Ed
blacknet
Contributor
This is clearly a CYA approach on the agencies standpoint. You will be hard pressed to find any agency that concones this practice. We see the same thing with o2 clean materials as well. This is why parts are being shipped half ass O2 clean, for 40%.
Ed
but since you have the manual, does the NOAA suggest this at all? Just curious if it did or did not.
blacknet
Contributor
No reference at all in either the NOAA or the Navy manuals.
Ed
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