BP/W really OK for a newbie

[Adobo]

A fin pivot is a "learn to crawl in order to understand how to walk" sort of concept. When I teach it in confined water, it leads directly to a hover. It's useful for teaching folks how to use the "internal BCD" to control buoyancy.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I was in a pool with my drysuit on while an open water class was having their first in water session. (I mention the drysuit as I find it much easier to hover motionless horizontally in a drysuit than I do in a wet suit. I guess I cheat by moving the air in the suit to compensate for any misplaced weights.)

Anyway, two of the students where watching me hover. Not long after, I saw them adding bits of air to their bcs and beginning to hover.

You guys are are instructors so you would know better than me. But from that one isolated experience, the concept didn't strike me to be that complex.

 

[Vayu]

A backplate and wing system is the answer for every diver in every situation everywhere forever.

 

[djanni]

Actually Don ... I only responded to what I considered to be some rather strong and inappropriate assertions on your part. I do think that you totally dissed theatis, and implied that he was worried that he had made a bad purchase, when that's not what he said at all.

Your assertion that backplates are only good for tech diving is simply not true ... you're entitled to believe it if you wish, but that won't make it any more true.

No one's "ganging up" on you ... we're simply responding to things you've said. theatis is a pretty new diver, so implying that he's part of "the same couple dozen people" doesn't cut it either. We all have every bit as much right to express our opinions as you do. If you insist on categorizing us, and calling us "comical", then you can expect us to challenge your words ... particularly when, for the most part, we are speaking from practical experience and you are not.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call you or anyone comical. I said it is comical when you realize that it's always the same group of people... and it is. BTW: I try real hard not to misquote you or anyone else for that matter.

One thing you fail to mention are my comments such as: "I've never said a bad word about a bp/w and while I consistantly promote them for the things they do best....

Apparantly you feel bp/w's are the best solution for every diver in every situation and that's fine by me. You're just as welcome to your opinions as I am to mine.

As to this remark: "particularly when, for the most part, we are speaking from practical experience and you are not." I'd bet that if you had gained all that experience diving warm Caribbean waters you'd be in vest bc right now. Well, maybe a back inflate.

 

[rongoodman]

Without getting into the issue of what kind of BC the OP should buy, I can state that my BP/W is certainly suitable for this newbie. I used the rental BC is my class to avoid making waves. The week after our checkout dives I was in the pool with a new drysuit and the BP/W with no problems(other than being very new...). The long hose/bungeed backup were there for the second pool session, also no problems. I don't anticipate using anything else.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call you or anyone comical. I said it is comical when you realize that it's always the same group of people... and it is.

But it's not ... as I said, theatis is a pretty new diver. Obviously he hasn't been involved in prior discussions on the subject. And in any case, when someone asks about bp/w doesn't it make sense that people who have actual experience using them will respond?

One thing you fail to mention are my comments such as: "I've never said a bad word about a bp/w and while I consistantly promote them for the things they do best....

But if what you are saying is patently untrue, does it matter whether it's a good word or a bad word?

Apparantly you feel bp/w's are the best solution for every diver in every situation and that's fine by me. You're just as you are welcome to your opinions as I am to mine.

Hmmm ... just a bit earlier (reply 62) in this thread I stated my opinion ...

If all you're ever gonna do is vacation dive the tropics ... and if you can find one that fits you properly ... a jacket style BCD may be a good choice. And then it's going to depend very much on user preferences. If you are going to dive more temperate climates, wearing a drysuit or thicker wetsuit ... or if you are having difficulties finding a traditional BCD that provides proper fit and comfort ... then a BP/wing may be a better choice. Again, it depends on user preferences.

And yet you are claiming that I said something else.

BTW: I try real hard not to misquote you or anyone else for that matter.

But you just did.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lamont]

Apparantly you feel bp/w's are the best solution for every diver in every situation and that's fine by me. You're just as welcome to your opinions as I am to mine.

they are a solution that works in every kind of diving situation that your average recreational diver is ever likely to come across. the big drawbacks would be the single-strap harness, and going with something like DSS's pro-fit harness can help people with shoulder mobility issues (betcha that when I'm 60+ years old i'm not diving doubles in a single-strap harness...). and if you don't buy the single-purposeness of the BP/W you can find well-constructed back-inflate BCs like the Zeagle Ranger which offer integrated weights and pouches and stuff.

i'll have to admit that i'm not a fan of the wrap-around-the-stomach jacket BC though. it really *has* to fit correctly or else if its too tight you can restrict the diaphram (and i'm pretty sure that i rescued someone who was having this exact problem once). for the rental market and newbie divers it would seem like black-inflates would be a better choice since it avoids this dangerous problem if the fit isn't just right.

for someone that is obsessive about failure points and bulletproof construction, i don't think you can beat a BP/W though. the backplate isn't going to break, the stainless steel hardware isn't going to break, the harness webbing is easily and cheaply replacable, an inner-bladder design is very puncture resistant and a single dump valve on the read and the inflator hose on the top minimize failure points. and there's nothing about the construction which is inherantly "tech". you are likely to need to have pockets on your exposure suit, you'll need to wear a weightbelt and you'll need to have some mobility to get in and out of it. those are really the only implications of the design, and none of those preclude them from being used by newbies.

YMMV.

 

[The Chairman]

I agree Lamont... DSS's harness makes a BP/Wings do-able after several shoulder and hand surgeries. I love mine!

But really, a great back inflate (Ranger, Chute III, etc) is even more comfortable when you are diving a single tank. There is no issue with adjusting your trim and the pockets make it far more convenient for the average diver.

 

[djanni]

Hmmm ... just a bit earlier (reply 62) in this thread I stated my opinion ... And yet you are claiming that I said something else. But you just did.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob: I read your post #62 and you did say, albeit after considerable qualification, that there could be a place in this world for a jacket bc.

FYI - I don't wear a jacket BC yet I'm under the impression your comments include both jacket and back inflation bc's. Maybe I'm wrong, which is it, one or both styles?

Just to set the record straight; I said " Apparantly you feel that way...." I did not say that is what you said! Again you're putting words in my mouth.

And yes, I was disrespectful to theatis and for that I apologize to him.

BTW: The Zeagle Stiletto is arguably the finish BCD ever concieved by man. A bp/w's can only wish to fit as well be as convienient or as comfortable.

 

[PerroneFord]

This dog is still chasing it's tail I see... I made a vow last week never to get into one of these arguments about BP/W again, and I won't. It's pointless.

Maybe one day this dog will catch it's tail...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob: I read your post #62 and you did say, albeit after considerable qualification, that there could be a place in this world for a jacket bc.

What "considerable qualifications" were those? I only addressed issues of proper fit and comfort, which apply regardless of what style of BCD you are wearing.

FYI - I don't wear a jacket BC yet I'm under the impression your comments include both jacket and back inflation bc's. Maybe I'm wrong, which is it, one or both styles?

Don, all styles of BCD offer advantages and disadvantages. Any honest discussion of the subject should consider what they are, as well as take into account the style of diving, other gear being used, and preferences of the individual.

Just to set the record straight; I said " Apparantly you feel that way...." I did not say that is what you said! Again you're putting words in my mouth.

And on what do you base my apparent feelings? Certainly not on the words I typed.

BTW: The Zeagle Stiletto is arguably the finish BCD ever concieved by man.

I tend to avoid statements like that, as I've not used all of the BCDs ever conceived by man ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)