BP/W really OK for a newbie

[cecilb63]

My 14 year old daughter just finished her open water cert yesterday in a 40# bp/w. (yay!) No problems. Worked great with a little steel 50. She's small sized, not too tall, 5' I guess.

She likes it because she doesn't feel as entombed as she did in the vest style BC. She didn't like the wrap around cumberbun feeling on her chest from the vest. So I got her the bp/w, a nice oxycheq sig series which I am jealous over. I tried to "sell" her on my dss wing (we trade) but she wouldn't budge. In truth, the oxy wing is a better fit for her, more rugged, smaller, and easier to vent being a donut. But I use it when she's not around ;>) nothing wrong with the dss though, it works great I like the STA-less design and I used that for my kid's oxy setup as well

In my opinion, those who say bp/w is only for tech diving are mistaken.

But my recommendation is buy something inexpensive to start, experience will tell you what type of BC you'll want. Nothing wrong with a vest, nothing at all, nothing wrong with a wing either.

 

[LavaSurfer]

II will continue to use my probe for ow classes with new students. My instructor has requested this just to make it easier(?) on newbies. Also because we really don't push BP/W at the shop. Our primary gear line does not have BP/W's even though they do have several very nice back-inflates.

This is the point I tried to make earlier.
I take my BP/W to pool sessions. At first I got resistance but I now bring it and it adds new dimension to the conversations around BCD's. I am still bucking the "Only for Technical" belief but its breaking down and I think the new divers benefit knowing what is out there and available.

New divers need to know what’s available to them from an equipments point of view and to tell them that BP/W is "Specialized" or “Technical Only” in nature is just plain inaccurate. As inaccurate as telling them that a Mares Abyss regulator is only designed for deep diving and will give them problems if they do shallow dives.

The only problem I see with the BP/W in pool sessions is when doing the fin pivot. I need ankle weights or something as I just rise horizontally and bob up and down.

 

[djanni]

Ever feel like you've been ganged up on? Well the gang is all here so it should have been expected.

There is a group here, some experienced and some who are not, that assert bp/w's are the single best solution for every diver in every diving situation. This group resents anyone who challange's their claims or doesn't see things the way they do.

Sooner or later, everyone who spends much time on this board and in this forum comes to realize that out it's 60k membership it's always the same couple of dozen people. It's so obvious it's comical.

I've never said a bad word about a bp/w and while I consistantly promote them for the things they do best I strongly maintain they are not the single best solution for every diver in every diving situation and I will continue to maintain that.

 

[Adobo]

The only problem I see with the BP/W in pool sessions is when doing the fin pivot. I need ankle weights or something as I just rise horizontally and bob up and down.

Hmm... I would have thought that rising evenly when adding air to your BC is a good thing.

I never did understand the point of a fin pivot. Does it have a real application in diving or is it just to demonstrate that when you add air, your bouyancy changes?

 

[LavaSurfer]

Hmm... I would have thought that rising evenly when adding air to your BC is a good thing.

I never did understand the point of a fin pivot. Does it have a real application in diving or is it just to demonstrate that when you add air, your bouyancy changes?

I agree, Doesn't make sense but it is required. One of the 20 basic skills required by PADI. Personally I just want to know they can control thier bouyancy. I think the hover is the better test and harder for the noob to grasp.

In short to answer your question, It does demonstrate exactly what you stated. Using breath to control buoyancy and small changed in elevation within the water column. This becomes even more clear after you start using breath to glide over a reef and don't use the inflator to change your bouyancy.

Different topic though but the pivot is something I have to demonstrate.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ever feel like you've been ganged up on? Well the gang is all here so it should have been expected.

There is a group here, some experienced and some who are not, that assert bp/w's are the single best solution for every diver in every diving situation. This group resents anyone who challange's their claims or doesn't see things the way they do.

Sooner or later, everyone who spends much time on this board and in this forum comes to realize that out it's 60k membership it's always the same couple of dozen people. It's so obvious it's comical.

I've never said a bad word about a bp/w and while I consistantly promote them for the things they do best I strongly maintain they are not the single best solution for every diver in every diving situation and I will continue to maintain that.

Actually Don ... I only responded to what I considered to be some rather strong and inappropriate assertions on your part. I do think that you totally dissed theatis, and implied that he was worried that he had made a bad purchase, when that's not what he said at all.

Your assertion that backplates are only good for tech diving is simply not true ... you're entitled to believe it if you wish, but that won't make it any more true.

No one's "ganging up" on you ... we're simply responding to things you've said. theatis is a pretty new diver, so implying that he's part of "the same couple dozen people" doesn't cut it either. We all have every bit as much right to express our opinions as you do. If you insist on categorizing us, and calling us "comical", then you can expect us to challenge your words ... particularly when, for the most part, we are speaking from practical experience and you are not.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hmm... I would have thought that rising evenly when adding air to your BC is a good thing.

I never did understand the point of a fin pivot. Does it have a real application in diving or is it just to demonstrate that when you add air, your bouyancy changes?

A fin pivot is a "learn to crawl in order to understand how to walk" sort of concept. When I teach it in confined water, it leads directly to a hover. It's useful for teaching folks how to use the "internal BCD" to control buoyancy.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LavaSurfer]

A fin pivot is a "learn to crawl in order to understand how to walk" sort of concept. When I teach it in confined water, it leads directly to a hover. It's useful for teaching folks how to use the "internal BCD" to control buoyancy.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well Put!

 

[odysseas]

Dear Don Janni,

I'm sorry if my statement led to you feeling ganged up; i don't try to pick fights on the internet and that was not my intention. But since i started this, i feel the responsibility to respond. Let me reiterate (if it wasn't clear enough) that my intention was to provide my example as an instance of a newbie who is doing better with a BP/W than a stab jacket; it isn't necessary that it will be the same for everyone and it would be illogical to make that argument (you cannot logically universalize from an instance, more on that in a minute). However, the opening question was not "BP/W always better for newbies", it was "BP/W really OK" and my response is "sure, at least it worked for me."

After that, you responded with the following exact words: "Must have been some real crappy BC's that you were wearing. Mine fits like a glove." That is an illogical argument. The first sentence affirms the consequent in the following way: "if you wear crappy BCs, they won't fit you well." I'm sure we can all agree with that. But then by looking at the consequent, namely the BCs that I tried didn't fit me well, you jump to the logically false conclusion that they were indeed crappy. In reality, any number of other potential antecedents could be the causal factor.

Secondly, you correlate this with a statement that yours fits well. Well, that actually logically only proves (surprise, surprise!) that YOURS fits well, absolutely nothing more. The existence of a condition (i.e. a statement such as yours: "in my case, my BC fits like a glove") is a response to the question "Is there such a thing as a BC that fits well?" But we all knew that; every proponent of a BP/W KNOWS that there are good jacket BCs out there.

Anyway, this is getting too pedantic and probably boring. This isn't an ad hominem attack on Don Janni, just what i consider illustration of my point rather than making unqualified and unsubstantiated statements.

 

[theatis]

I don't know what happened here, I posted the above statement as Theatis. I had created an account as Odysseas (which is my real first name) but then changed it to the moniker that i use on other internet forums. Maybe there's some old cookie on this computer? In any case, i made the statement, so that there's no misundertanding.