BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[Jim Lapenta]

When I got away from the jacket BC and started up with a shop that I did my tech training through, and subsequent instructor path, I made a decision. That was to become as familiar as possible with as many different OC configurations/styles as possible.

Jackets, back inflates, BPW's, long hose, standard rec hose set up, variations on that, etc. It didn't take long to come to the realization, as Ray has pointed out, that they are essentially all the same. Once I did that I started mixing them up further by using gear that was too small, too big, and just right. Again it turned out that it really didn't make a difference. Even when I intentionally over weighted myself I could still, and still can, get into trim and stay neutral. But it's so much easier to not overweight.

As an instructor I chose to teach a system that required a much more significant amount of time in the pool than I got in my own OW class. I started using that time to show and put students in jackets, back inflates, BPW's, long hoses, and standard rec set ups. Since I also explain the similarities and the MINOR differences I have yet to have a student be confused, frustrated, or experience and other negative effects.

I do think it's a shame that there are OW divers out there from many informed and skilled instructors that seem to know more than CD's and IT's when it comes to reality and gear.

---------- Post added February 14th, 2015 at 09:32 AM ----------

Thanks. Is the 90* swivel a fixed L shaped adapter? Can the adapter be straightened?

The 90 degree is a fixed adapter as is the 70 degree that others like myself use. Each end will rotate 360 degrees in one plane. A swivel is omni-directional and rotates around the center between the ends.

 

[danvolker]

The IE isn't about gear... it's about teaching.

There's no need to cover EVERY TYPE of gear - including the venerable BP/W - regardless of how strongly a relative handful of people within the relative handful of divers in the world that is Scubaboard might want.

Except this is more like saying you will take a test to show how well you can teach a non-computer user, to become a computer user, with the primary skills taught in a few programs like Lightroom, Outlook and use of a browser for Internet.....
The problem is, some students show up with PC's ( Windows 8.1), and some show up with Macs ( X) .... If this test for your computer teaching skills, only shows how well you can teach with the PC, because you don't even know how to find the files or to get around on the mac, then you really have no business considering your self a "computer instructor"....Maybe you could say you teach PC based computer instruction, and you make a big point to let students know that you can''t help them if they have Macs....or vice versa. The limitation is YOURS, not the computer choice of the student.

Until the average "Instructor" can demonstrate that they have the skill to do a fair configuration of a bp/wing system, and get a new student into rough trim with this news bp/wing system, as well as show how to do the rescue skills and other discrepant skills, there is a huge hole in the Instructor skills they can perform. The "teaching" can't happen, absent the essential skills and knowledge.

 

[RJP]

I find I puzzling that when many divers use bp/w and many wish they had been shown and told about this option before they spent money on other types of bcd, when some dive centers already teach students in bp/w and when the instructor candidates have bp/w as their usual gear, people still tell them to get a jacket style bcd for the ie. Is it just to me that it seems the ie is wrong if they cannot cope with an increasingly popular set up, which is in the view of many divers, better in all aspects?

I'm not sure why people read "it's somewhat less of a hassle to use a rec BCD" as "I can't cope with using a BP/W." You're also falling victim to the self-reference criteria idea that the gear preferences of some SB posters are representative of diving overall.

ScubaBoard members are an exceedingly small portion of the overall diving population.
Active SB members are an exceedingly small portion of the total SB membership.
SB posters are an exceedingly small portion of active SB members.
Active SB posters are smaller subset of all SB posters.
BP/W divers are a smaller subset of all active posters.

I'd bet you could identify two dozen posters who, if all their posts/threads were deleted from SB the appearance of a "BP/W-over-BCD preference" on SB would change dramatically. If you expanded that to 100 people I suspect it would almost disappear. That's out of 250,000 members.

As mentioned above - ad nauseum - the IE is about teaching technique. It's not about diving and it's not about gear.

Here's my take on the topic:

1. There is absolutely ZERO chance a candidate will encounter a configuration-driven hassle if they use a recreational BCD in their IE.
2. There's an exceedingly low likelihood that a candidate that dives a DIR/HOG configuration would actually FAIL the IE due to any of the hassles in #2 above.
3. There is definitely some likelihood that a candidate diving a DIR/HOG rig WILL encounter a configuration-driven hassle due to other-people's lack of familiarity with the setup; whether from the IE staff or other candidates in either their role as candidate or their role as "student" during various in-water exercises.
4. Idealistically speaking, it would be great if we lived in a world where every instructor/diver were knowledgeable, comfortable, and fluid in every manner of gear in existence.
5. Realistically speaking, we don't lived in a world where every instructor/diver is knowledgeable, comfortable, and fluid in every manner of gear in existence.
6. Practically speaking, we live in a world where the vast majority of instructors/divers DON'T NEED to be knowledgeable, comfortable, and fluid in anything other than a traditional recreational BCD.
7. It would be great if those of us who believe that a BP/W is a truly superior configuration could change the world vis-a-vis #5, #6, and #7 above
8. Any candidate that is simply as comfortable - or more so - in a BP/W should do the IE in a BP/W if they want. (Though anyone who is MORE comfortable in a BP/W should ask themselves if being LESS COMFORTABLE in the configuration that the vast majority of the world uses either says something about their abilities and/or is problematic in any way.)
9. Any candidate that thinks that the effort of dealing with the hassles in #3 above is worth it, because "doing so will change the diving world one IE at a time" should go ahead and do so... even if that means having some level of negative impact on the other candidates in their IE.
10. Any BP/W-loving candidate that has too many other things going on in their lives to put up with any possible hassle... should go ahead and use a traditional recreational BCD. Not because doing so "makes passing the IE easier" but simply because it reduces the likelihood that doing their IE will become any more of a hassle than it already is.

If you believe that using a BCD in the IE somehow signals that an instructor is less-qualified or is "taking the easy way out" please confirm that you completed - or intend to complete - your IE with one eye closed, in Antarctica, in a language that you do not speak. Because taking the IE with both eyes, in a more temperate environment, in your native language is clearly "taking the easy way out."

 

[Pavao]

I'm not sure why people read "it's somewhat less of a hassle to use a rec BCD" as "I can't cope with using a BP/W." You're also falling victim to the self-reference criteria idea that the gear preferences of some SB posters are representative of diving overall.

ScubaBoard members are an exceedingly small portion of the overall diving population.
Active SB members are an exceedingly small portion of the total SB membership.
SB posters are an exceedingly small portion of active SB members.
Active SB posters are smaller subset of all SB posters.
BP/W divers are a smaller subset of all active posters.

I'd bet you could identify two dozen posters who, if all their posts/threads were deleted from SB the appearance of a "BP/W-over-BCD preference" on SB would change dramatically. If you expanded that to 100 people I suspect it would almost disappear. That's out of 250,000 members.

As mentioned above - ad nauseum - the IE is about teaching technique. It's not about diving and it's not about gear.

Ha, thanks man, I'm glad more people see this.

You are 100% right in my opinion, it's always the same people posting over and over again, this is also why HOG regs are so popular .... on scubaboard world... just to give one exemple.

You ever notice the trend in abbreviations, certain vocabulary, sentences that become so popular? Every other post starts with IMHO or FWIW, not to mention someone is sure to respond to this post saying this is a cavalier yada yada yada lolololol

I really liked your post!

 

[KevinNM]

You ever notice the trend in abbreviations, certain vocabulary, sentences that become so popular? Every other post starts with IMHO or FWIW, not to mention someone is sure to respond to this post saying this is a cavalier yada yada yada lolololol

Unless you personally are an IE or you did or had someone in your class do the course in a BP/W it's all opinion. Most stuff here is opinion, unless you post how you love diving on pure O2 at 80 feet or something similar it's unlikely that you are doing something so crazy that it is clearly wrong.

 

[Peter Guy]

RJP wrote

There is absolutely ZERO chance a candidate will encounter a configuration-driven hassle if they use a recreational BCD in their IE.

And this absolutely captures the problem the poor OP has. Remember, RJP IS a BP/W "enthusiast" and yet what does he write:

"a recreational BCD"

to mean what -- a jacket BCD, a Back Inflate BCD, a BP/W BCD? I think he means a "jacket BCD" but heck, I'm not at all sure.

BTW, if you really want to screw with the rest of the "students" in an IE, wear an "i3" jacket BCD and Airsource (although I don't know if that is possible).

 

[Hawkwood]

...
BTW, if you really want to screw with the rest of the "students" in an IE, wear an "i3" jacket BCD and Airsource (although I don't know if that is possible).

Wow, you are nasty!

 

[decompression]

Wow, you are nasty!

Add an ocean reef FFM.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[danvolker]

Maybe there is some regionalization to this entire discussion.....

Maybe there are places where "most divers" would only consider jacket type bc's.....places where real "teaching" of scuba would only require familiarity with the traditional jacket style bc's--where instructors teach what their students need.


We heard from TSandM that in the Pacific NW bp/wings are more of the "norm" than the stab jacket styles....and at a destination like Palm Beach or Fort Lauderdale, you see lots of Bp/wings on the charter boats, and if you visit the highest volume/largest dive shops, and the best dive shops, you would see that bp/wings are prominently displayed and are a very significant part of their business. You would see some overlap here, and that this would include shops like Force E, Pompano Dive Center, Jupiter Dive Center, and many other well known in the area.
So in destinations with diving like south Florida or Pacific NW, or cave country, or quite a few others members here can name, there really is a large number of divers that considers the Bp/wing superior...and as the "go to" choice....and yet.....some here would suggest we should ignore the regional "needs"....ignore the gear required for the sales and interests in these areas....and allow Instructors in these places to have exams that do not show if they have competence in key areas......

I keep hearing it is not the gear, but the teaching.....If we were discussing different brands of masks or fins, or tanks or regulators...I would not be arguing. But with a large number of instructor candidates, in a national sample base, the vast majority will NOT know enough about how to use a BP/wing to even make an embarrassingly poor demonstration of basics in configuration for rough trim, or rescue, or even deployment of hoses, computers and gauges....By this I mean they can't teach what they don't know.

 

[Peter Guy]

Dan -- with regards to what gear one uses in the IE there has to be some regional differences. For example, when I did the OW portion of my IE the air temp was 34 F and the water temp was 41 F. Do you think we used the same gear that would have been "the norm" in a tropical setting? And if some poor tropically trained Candidate had made the mistake of coming to the NW to do his IE, what sort of a shock might she have encountered with thick gloves, dry suit hoses (and valves) -- not to mention a whole lot more lead.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn the Examiner made adjustments to how the open water portion of the exam was run as compared to one done in much warmer conditions.

But, back to the OP's question -- I'll return to my original statement -- do the IE in the gear you are comfortable using.