BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[demed]

Your comment might be humorous, if not for the present situation---where an instructor could be so negligent in their ability to get a student set up in their gear ( if student shows up for class in bp/wing) that the instructor could very well FAIL to teach or assist this student in any meaningful way)....And to insist that the instructor should only have to be familiar with jacket type junk gear is ludicrous.... ( this being the way many of us see stab jackets for diving--and the way many students are hearing it from us, that stab jackets are "sloppy gear" they should stay away from....., and thus they are showing up for a class in bp/wing gear) ....

In fact, I get to speak with a large number of people considering dive instruction....and I always tell them that the jacket style bc's are a huge mistake...and not to listen to anyone pushing jacket bc's
Typically I tell them to TRY or DEMO several BC's as well as bp/wings...and to try several types of fins....Diving needs to be more like Snow Skiing where the DEMO precedes the purchase, most of the time.

Like it or not...there is a very real "division" in diving...Insist on things being done the way they were in the last 20 years, and not evolving, and a new agency will come in and take advantage of this growing "division".

Let me start saying that if, in order to understand what you are saying, I need to translate from Lake Worthian to English, perhaps some remedial training about writing skills would be advisable, whatever the agency.

Junk gear might be what you wear, no need for ludicrous name calling, here or anywhere. Calling yourself a divemaster you should show a little more professionalism towards the industry and a far less cavalier attitude about people preferences.

I'm not sure based on what competency you talk to people considering dive instruction, but you should probably get off the pulpit to be taken seriously, the smileys just don't cut it.

 

[danvolker]

Junk gear might be what you wear, no need for ludicrous name calling, here or anywhere. Calling yourself a divemaster you should show a little more professionalism towards the industry and a far less cavalier attitude about people preferences.

I'm not sure based on what competency you talk to people considering dive instruction, but you should probably get off the pulpit to be taken seriously, the smileys just don't cut it.

The very assertion that there is no need to cover Bp/wing in the IE, is essentially calling this style of diving irrelevant. Those making this assertion are then the first ones that cast the "stone". That would be what is unprofessional.
Even though I don't think that jacket style BC's are good gear choices for most recreational divers, I do make it a point to suggest that they try both styles--the traditional jackets AND the bp/wing....WHEN THIS HAPPENS, 9 times out of ten the new diver or student will chose the bp/wing.

As to competency, that's a pissing contest we are not going to sort out on an Internet Discussion board. If you ever visit South Florida, and we dive together, then maybe we could have some fun with this

 

[RJP]

The very assertion that there is no need to cover Bp/wing in the IE, is essentially calling this style of diving irrelevant.

The IE isn't about gear... it's about teaching.

There's no need to cover EVERY TYPE of gear - including the venerable BP/W - regardless of how strongly a relative handful of people within the relative handful of divers in the world that is Scubaboard might want.

 

[TSandM]

I will say that my experience with my Rescue class was frustrating, because by that time, I was diving my backplate rig, and my instructors had NO idea how to manage the various scenarios with it. I came home each night from class and called my friend Bob Bailey, a NAUI instructor, to ask him, "How do I do X?". He was kind enough only once to say, "Gee, you coulda taken the class from somebody who knew something about your gear . . . "

In the PNW, backplates and harnesses are VERY common, and in my opinion, all instructors ought to know about them, how to adjust them correctly, and how to manage skills and scenarios for students who are using them. Most of them don't. As long as we don't show up at IDCs and IEs in that gear, how will anybody learn?

 

[RJP]

I will say that my experience with my Rescue class was frustrating, because by that time, I was diving my backplate rig, and my instructors had NO idea how to manage the various scenarios with it. I came home each night from class and called my friend Bob Bailey, a NAUI instructor, to ask him, "How do I do X?". He was kind enough only once to say, "Gee, you coulda taken the class from somebody who knew something about your gear . . . "

In the PNW, backplates and harnesses are VERY common, and in my opinion, all instructors ought to know about them, how to adjust them correctly, and how to manage skills and scenarios for students who are using them. Most of them don't. As long as we don't show up at IDCs and IEs in that gear, how will anybody learn?

Guess I was just randomly lucky to end up at a shop that is tech driven in an area that is tech driven. I can go months without seeing a recreational BCD anywhere but gathering dust in a display at the shop or in a magazine. I never realized BP/W wasn't "the standard" until I found SB.

 

[Divetech99]

To further complicate the real world situation, I see more and more OW divers in a "semi DIR" rig. They use a backplate and necklace backup hog style but their primary is their old 40" octopus routed under their arms with an added a 90 degree adapter to their primary second stage. Looks like a clean setup with no dangling or long bowing hoses. Obviously they donate their primary to help an OOA diver. Anyone using this setup?

 

[victorzamora]

To further complicate the real world situation, I see more and more OW divers in a "semi DIR" rig. They use a backplate and necklace backup hog style but their primary is their old 40" octopus routed under their arms with an added a 90 degree adapter to their primary second stage. Looks like a clean setup with no dangling or long bowing hoses. Obviously they donate their primary to help an OOA diver. Anyone using this setup?

A buddy was, for a while, and then started cave/tech training. I think it's a SUPER clean setup for purely rec, purely OW diving. My wife prefers the 7ft hose, but tried it with the 40" and liked it a lot.

 

[Superlyte27]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the advice and insights, albeit rough at times . Been diving on a HOG/DIR setup since the 90s as DM and while Tec Diving. The rig is second nature to me. However, for the IE, I'll make the adjustments to make it easier for the IE process and fellow IE candidates.

I plan to do the following:

1. Keep the BP/W.

2. Remove the crotch strap.

3. Change the 7ft long hose to a 40 inch hose and make it the "Octopus" alternate air source clipped on the right chest DRing.

4. Use my existing necklace reg as the primary but remove the necklace.

So all I'm changing is removing the crotch strap and the long hose (replacing it with. 40 inch hose). Is 40 inch the right length for an Octopus? Will this new setup work?

Thanks.

And this post right here is what's wrong with the future of diving. A diver is giving up a better system to please the Powers That Be. And I get why he's doing it. Better to pass and be able to teach a quality class later, than to fail and never teach at all. Isn't it sad that we have to make that choice.

For the record...
I don't teach many recreational classes. But a few times per year someone calls me and says, "Pete, we want to take class with you because of..." And I tell them point blank. If you really want to take class with me, this is how it's going to be, with this gear, and this is why. Take it or leave it. I'll even lend them the gear. I've never had anyone say no yet. And when they're done, they're trim is spot on, their buoyancy is great and their frog kick has been mastered. Don't buy into the bs that it's harder to learn in a balanced HOG or DIR rig. That's a load of crap. And I'll put my OW students against anyone's OW student any time.

 

[Divetech99]

Thanks. Is the 90* swivel a fixed L shaped adapter? Can the adapter be straightened?

 

[Redshift]

I find I puzzling that when many divers use bp/w and many wish they had been shown and told about this option before they spent money on other types of bcd, when some dive centers already teach students in bp/w and when the instructor candidates have bp/w as their usual gear, people still tell them to get a jacket style bcd for the ie. Is it just to me that it seems the ie is wrong if they cannot cope with an increasingly popular set up, which is in the view of many divers, better in all aspects?