BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[Hartattack]

All of this middle school bickering is comical!
Here's the skinny to the OP:

Since GUE Training, I have gone through an entire University Academic Diving Course "Hogarthian/ DIR" to include my IE this summer. (It would have been this March if the GI Bill would have let me but that is just not the case), however, IMHO, dive with what you find most comfortable to you and what you intend on doing. In my case, I fully hope to move forward with GUE to Inst level but, I have to make money somehow before doing that , moreover, I feel as though this setup is safer, more streamlined and encourages safety and teamwork and if I can pass that along to my students then that is a Win for both me and them, furthermore, we sit here and bicker yet continue to spit out students after three days fully qualified and ready to dive at 60ft then come back the next day and go into an advanced course!!!!???? That to me, is dangerous and irresponsible. Hate on the setup all you want but don't get jealous when you see my students start doing skills in correct buoyancy and trim while yours are still silt puppies. ::rops Mic:::

 

[Divetech99]

RJP, that's a great real life rescue story. What were the lessons learned from this rescue? Was the gear removed? CPR performed? Since the victim recovered and remembered everything, what did he say? Thanks.

 

[RJP]

All of this middle school bickering is comical!
Here's the skinny to the OP:

Since GUE Training, I have gone through an entire University Academic Diving Course "Hogarthian/ DIR" to include my IE this summer. (It would have been this March if the GI Bill would have let me but that is just not the case), however, IMHO, dive with what you find most comfortable to you and what you intend on doing. In my case, I fully hope to move forward with GUE to Inst level but, I have to make money somehow before doing that , moreover, I feel as though this setup is safer, more streamlined and encourages safety and teamwork and if I can pass that along to my students then that is a Win for both me and them, furthermore, we sit here and bicker yet continue to spit out students after three days fully qualified and ready to dive at 60ft then come back the next day and go into an advanced course!!!!???? That to me, is dangerous and irresponsible. Hate on the setup all you want but don't get jealous when you see my students start doing skills in correct buoyancy and trim while yours are still silt puppies. ::rops Mic:::

Which course does GUE teach students to walk on water?

:d

 

[gcarter]

All of this middle school bickering is comical!
Here's the skinny to the OP:

Since GUE Training, I have gone through an entire University Academic Diving Course "Hogarthian/ DIR" to include my IE this summer. (It would have been this March if the GI Bill would have let me but that is just not the case), however, IMHO, dive with what you find most comfortable to you and what you intend on doing. In my case, I fully hope to move forward with GUE to Inst level but, I have to make money somehow before doing that , moreover, I feel as though this setup is safer, more streamlined and encourages safety and teamwork and if I can pass that along to my students then that is a Win for both me and them, furthermore, we sit here and bicker yet continue to spit out students after three days fully qualified and ready to dive at 60ft then come back the next day and go into an advanced course!!!!???? That to me, is dangerous and irresponsible. Hate on the setup all you want but don't get jealous when you see my students start doing skills in correct buoyancy and trim while yours are still silt puppies. ::rops Mic:::

This is a little bit of what I was trying to get at with my questions, trying to understand the motivations of the OP.

This poster is equating equipment choice to quality of training, suggesting that only BP/W aficionados are capable of imparting proper skills.

Correct buoyancy and trim are achieved (and taught) by a great many divers who prefer BCDs.

(Also demonstrates a lack of understanding that AOW is not an advanced course)

 

[Pullmyfinger]

All of this middle school bickering is comical!
Here's the skinny to the OP:

Since GUE Training, I have gone through an entire University Academic Diving Course "Hogarthian/ DIR" to include my IE this summer. (It would have been this March if the GI Bill would have let me but that is just not the case), however, IMHO, dive with what you find most comfortable to you and what you intend on doing. In my case, I fully hope to move forward with GUE to Inst level but, I have to make money somehow before doing that , moreover, I feel as though this setup is safer, more streamlined and encourages safety and teamwork and if I can pass that along to my students then that is a Win for both me and them, furthermore, we sit here and bicker yet continue to spit out students after three days fully qualified and ready to dive at 60ft then come back the next day and go into an advanced course!!!!???? That to me, is dangerous and irresponsible. Hate on the setup all you want but don't get jealous when you see my students start doing skills in correct buoyancy and trim while yours are still silt puppies. ::rops Mic:::

Now it sounds like middle school.
Although "silt puppies" is a good one!

BTW....It's not about the backplate.

 

[RJP]

BTW....It's not about the backplate.

It's about the blue H's... everyone knows THAT, silly!

 

[Hartattack]

And the cinch! Ha ha


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---------- Post added February 11th, 2015 at 10:13 AM ----------

You guys don't understand sarcasm do you? Here's the truth; what is comfortable for YOU should work just fine in the IE, as long as your gear is safe, serviced, VIP'd etc etc. the original OP will be fine and I wish him good luck. As to the rest of you Fair Winds and Following Seas. I just don't have time to debate over social media.


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[RJP]

You guys don't understand sarcasm do you?

The web sorely needs a "sarcasm" font!

I just don't have time to debate over social media.

You're new here... you'll get used to it.

:d

 

[Pavao]

OMG man, again with the bad advices??? What are you trying to do, get this guy to fail his IE?

This thread is about PADI, since you're giving those wonderful insights here, I'll assume you are a PADI instructor, and as such I'd like to point out you might be braking standards, please read below.

This is exactly how I have my rescue students get me out of mine. Or cut the damn webbing. By doing this as you get the victim into shallow water that the rescuer(s) can stand in, I believe the standards is set that this skill is to be performed in water too deep to stand up. But regardless of standard, wouldn't you want your students to be trained in the worst possible scenarios? If you train them to do it in waters they can stand up in, what can we expect of their performance when they can't stand up? the face never comes close to going under water since the wing is inflated and is being used a raft. One person can do this and use one hand to pull the rig and the other to cradle the head. With two people it's even easier.Sure is, but here's 2 problems; 1)Like said above, train your students for the worse, there might not be a second person to help in a real rescue, 2)Certainly will not be a second person to help on the IE, it will be a one man show, you better know how to do it by yourself, in deep water. Since you never want to remove the buoyancy source (my wing and plate or BC) until you are in a place where you can safely extract the victim.I advise rescue students the same, it's just common sense to keep the best aid in floatation under the victim, with all the straps undone however, but they must swim the victim free of gear for a period of time, again, teaching them in the most difficult scenario. But, in the context of this thread, this is another bad advice, as the instructors candidate will have to remove the gear completely off the victim, it's not an option to leave gear under the victim. I believe in teaching a rescue class as it would be done in real life.There seems to be a discrepancy in what you believe in teaching and what you actually teach. Rescue breaths every five seconds in deep water are not happening.Well, according to PADI, you're braking standards then if you're teaching your students this, and the OP will certainly fail his IE if he doesn't follow the standards. Unclipping buckles one at a time as you are towing may be done but over and over I tell them if that is going to cause even a minor delay, cut the straps. Keep the vic's head out of the water and haul ass for shore or boat where you can do effective CPR. Remove the BC last and slide them off it onto the shore, boat, or ladder.
In my IE this was what was looked for. Not by the book pretty stuff. Slow motion demos are fine the first time in the pool. In OW I am shouting at the rescue students reminding them that brain damage may be setting in and they need to get compressions going or there is someone on shore playing the part of the grieving dive buddy or family. By the book pretty stuff, slow motion demos is exactly what the examiner will be looking for, again, he will not be evaluating you on weather you can perform rescue, he will be evaluating the candidates ability to demonstrate it, in fact, the examiner in my case was pretty emphatic multiple times when he reminded us all it was not a timed skill, as to relieve candidates of possible stress that could affect their performance.

The class should not be pretty or slow paced. A real rescue won't be. Training instructors to act like it will be can cause issues down the road.

On that how much time is spent in the IDC or IE going over the possible psychological aftermath of an actual rescue? I am seriously curious about this. In mine sad to say there was very little. So when the time came that I was involved in some minor incidents where I was just a helper it had an effect that was not expected. Then came the incident in Rawlings and working with some of the people involved in that is when I came up with my PTSD article and made sure to go over this in the first rescue class I taught. I now include it in every class since every diver is a potential rescuer or witness to one.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

OMG man, again with the bad advices??? What are you trying to do, get this guy to fail his IE?

This thread is about PADI, since you're giving those wonderful insights here, I'll assume you are a PADI instructor, and as such I'd like to point out you might be braking standards, please read below.

I am not a PADI Instructor and therefor not breaking any standards.

I teach the SEI DRAM Rescue course that evolved from the YMCA SLAM course. It was due to timed tests over various distances with one and two rescuers that the rescue breath every five seconds requirement was removed. Some of those tests I conducted with my students and those that other instructors did and provided the results.

On top of that the most recent CPR guidelines for the general public no longer include rescue breaths since without compressions their effectiveness is dubious at best. The option to deliver two breaths upon surfacing is allowed and discussed. That is based on the rescuers judgment given the resources and distance needed to get the victim to proper treatment.

I understand that you need to be pretty and do the exaggerated stuff for the examiners in the IE in question. I did not need to and the IE I did was supposed to be as true to life as possible. It was with "victims" acting very convincing. We were not given the opportunity to be pretty. They already knew we could teach and demo skills. That had been observed over several months.

In the YMCA system and now SEI, DM's and AI's are not only permitted but actually required to be able to take over for the instructor at any time for classroom and pool sessions. Some must be under direct supervision of an instructor and only instructors can do the actual student evaluations. But if the instructor comes in for say the tables session and has a sore throat, his DM or AI can conduct the entire session with the instructor just watching. Learn to teach by actually teaching. As a PADI DM I was not allowed to do that.