BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[RJP]

This is where I have a real issue with the system as you all are describing it. Not the BPW system but the IDC/IE system. Why are you ok with doing something, in gear you normally do not use, just to pass an exam?

If you'll follow along carefully... I think you'll see that no one is suggesting that it will be "easier to pass the exam" in terms of "dumbing down" the effort necessary but rather that it would be less hassle for the candidate and other candidates. Much in the same that it would be "easier" to drive to the IE rather than ride a bike or walk. Sure it could be done, but it's not the point of the IE and pedaling/walking there proves nothing.

 

[Pavao]

Why are you ok with doing something, in gear you normally do not use, just to pass an exam?

Because you are there for one and only reason, to PASS the exam, that is the only thing that matters in the IE.
You are not there to learn anything
You are not there to teach anything
And it is pretty costly, specially for the ones who must travel for it.


Make the examiners use their brains a little and figure out how to make your gear work. You will be teaching in it not in jacket. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Great advice, lets make things harder for the one who will be grading you, this can only help you, makes sense!
How about instead, we use OUR brain. What are you trying to achieve by making the examiner "figure out" how to make your gear work? (I honestly think you're on to something here, and the answer is down below...) By us using our brain, I mean, if the mission is to get people to use BP/W from the beginning as the OP intends, then an IE is not the place to start, it's not by changing the view of examiners of today, but the future ones.


Not sure what drysuit has to do with this discussion [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

Maybe it's not your fault that the CD is not ok with someone in a BPW. Maybe the fault is that the CD could use a refresher or two themselves?

[/QUOTE]
Well, you're spot on here, CDs and examiners of today, are the OWs of yesterday, how were they taught to dive, very, very likely on stab jackets, when they became instructors they taught students in stab jackets, some of those students went on to become instructors themselves, so on... so on....
Start the change from the foundation, teaching OWs, not the roof, making examiners scratch their heads
It is pretty obvious it's not his fault the CD isn't ok with BP/W, but perhaps it will be his fault a future CD isn't ok with it.

Pass the IE and get your license to start the change you intend.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If you'll follow along carefully... I think you'll see that no one is suggesting that it will be "easier to pass the exam" in terms of "dumbing down" the effort necessary but rather that it would be less hassle for the candidate and other candidates. Much in the same that it would be "easier" to drive to the IE rather than ride a bike or walk. Sure it could be done, but it's not the point of the IE and pedaling/walking there proves nothing.

I agree. You are going to be nervous taking the exam, if you fail you lose money and time. When I took my PADI IE, I had one examiner try to fail me because I did the respiration on an unconscious diver too fast while swimming them in. I was in VERY good shape back then. Of course this Examiner and I had a history and he tried to screw me and a whole group of people on a Cozumel trip -- that was until I raised holy hell, rabble roused, and got our free shore diving fills and free breakfast reinstated with our "all inclusive" trip.. I think he was still pissed about that.. The fat baaasterd..

Then I went on with the final written exam which was clearly incorrect with a few questions that were completely wrong (with none of the multiple choice answers being correct).. and when I got the answer "wrong" they wanted me to sign off that I understood the "right" answer. Of course I argued physics with the people and it quickly became apparent that NONE of the examiners understood the question or WHY none of the answers PADI provided were correct (not even close).. so I relented and signed off on it...

When doing the IE, you DO NOT want to be like me. It only raises your stress level and brings additional scrutiny toward your performance.. Fly under the radar, wear the freaking gear they want and pass the test. You gain nothing by using a harness with no quick release buckles and a crotch strap and a hose that reaches from the bottom of the pool to the surface.

 

[RJP]

Great advice, lets make things harder for the one who will be grading you, this can only help you, makes sense!
How about instead, we use OUR brain. What are you trying to achieve by making the examiner "figure out" how to make your gear work?

I was going to do my teaching presentations in Latin. You know... make the Evaluator use his brain a little.

As as I was told in grad school "It's OK to be smarter than your advisor... as long as you're smart enough not to try to prove it."

 

[wedivebc]

A couple of points long hose and backplate were around long before DIR and are not private domain of GUE.
Best configuration for IE is one you're comfortable using as long as it meets agency standards.

 

[Hoyden]

I took my IE back in 2008 in a BP/W with a 7' primary and a bungeed back-up. No problem. I think all of this is much ado about nothing.

Jackie

 

[Pavao]

I took my IE back in 2008 in a BP/W with a 7' primary and a bungeed back-up. No problem. I think all of this is much ado about nothing.

Jackie

Jackie, did your harness had buckles or was it a continuous piece of webbing? If continuous, how did the rescuer dealt with it removing you from it? Did you help making it easy to slide your arms out of it?


I have a question for whoever is current too, what is current standard on the snorkel? Do you have to have it on the mask while teaching?

 

[RJP]

Jackie, did your harness had buckles or was it a continuous piece of webbing? If continuous, how did the rescuer dealt with it removing you from it? Did you help making it easy to slide your arms out of it?


I have a question for whoever is current too, what is current standard on the snorkel? Do you have to have it on the mask while teaching?

You must HAVE a snorkel with you while teaching. There is no requirement that it be located anywhere in particular. Of course, if you're teaching any skills involving a snorkel... that'd be a good place to keep it.

:d

 

[gcarter]

Background: Not an instructor, not planning on becoming one, not even DM. SeaQuest Balance back inflate for my first 117 dives after certification. Hog BP/W for the last 55 dives. Happy with either but prefer BP/W.

Here are the questions I would ask back:

1) Do you intend to insist on students of yours wearing a particular configuration?

1.1) If yes, why are you looking for a PADI cert? Another agency might suit you better.
1.2) If no, are you comfortable that you can wear BP/W w/ long hose and properly demonstrate / transfer skills to students regardless of the kit they choose?​

1.2.1) If yes, fill yer boots (but be prepared for potential bias / pushback from your CD)
1.2.2) If no, you are setting yourself up for failure by electing to demonstrate teaching skills in a rig that does not allow you to properly transfer knowledge to students wearing different kit. You also have additional work to do to prepare yourself for teaching REGARDLESS your achieving your instructor rating. Desire does not replace competence. Personal skill does not imply teaching skill.​

2) Acknowledging your personal preference, is your desire to teach BP/W based on a belief that this is "the correct answer" or that it is "a preferred answer"? Again, if the former, you might want to rethink your choice of agency.

3) Ask yourself if you are prepared to discuss your students NEEDS and PREFERENCES with them. Ask yourself if you are prepared to accommodate those needs and preferences.

4) If a student expresses no intention or desire to dive anything but rented gear, are you prepared to outfit and train them in the gear they will actually find in rental shops? (I have personally not seen any shops in the admittedly few vacations spots I have dived that rented anything other than the so-called standard BCD rig). (And no, this would not preclude you from showing / demonstrating alternative options in case they should change their minds)

I would suggest that if you know what type of instructor you want to be and what type of compromises you are willing to make in terms of how you teach - the answer will be immediately evident to you as to whether it is worth doing your IE in a "non-standard" configuration.

 

[davetowz]

As as I was told in grad school "It's OK to be smarter than your advisor... as long as you're smart enough not to try to prove it."

This is my favorite quote of the day. Thanks RJP.