BP/W: I officially don't get it

[Pullmyfinger]

I switched over to one because I wanted a no frills setup. I also wanted to be able to use only the wing size I needed.
Most jacket BC's and back inflate BC's have a default size 40lb. to 45lb. lift.

I only need 20lbs. to 30 lbs. of lift.

I was looking for the most streamlined setup I could get.

Use what works best for you. I think all of the available gear choices out there are a good thing. We are lucky as divers to have so much good gear to choose from.

 

[diver 85]

bp/w is just a tool in the tool box. i mainly dive doubles with stage bottles slung and wouldnt dare try that with a bcd. i also enjoy the weight i can drop when diving singles and a SS bp. i think they are great for people that get them for a specific purpose but those that buy them because a internet forum said to might be a little disappointed

brett

Or a another trick in a bag of tricks......

 

[Julian55]

Well I agree with the OP, there is alot of "hype" right now about BP/W, I just rented one to try before I bought and did not like it much so I got a BCD instead, The LDS that I go to got very pissy that I did not like it and and thay were not even interested in selling me a BCD that they stock, the owner just walked away like a child and has ignored me the last 3 times I have been in there because I did not buy one. But I do dive with lots of people that really like them, so it's all personal preference.

 

[scubafanatic]

Recently took the plunge and bought a Halcyon BP/W set-up after reading all the "sturm and drang" on this board for years. My verdict: it's OK, but barely different (if at all) from a basic, pedestrian BC.

Give me good diving conditions and interesting marine life and, frankly, I couldn't care less about equipment (providing it's safe, of course).

So, I don't get it. Why don't people on this board care more about what they're seeing underwater instead of worrying about what they're wearing?

.....so when you dove the Halcyon BP, are you saying you didn't suddenly see MANTAS on every dive (even lake dives) and all the hot chicks didn't swarm all over you ???

...but seriously, to some extent, a tolerably decent 'rec' BC...like my Zeagle Ranger, isn't terribly far removed from having at least some of the critical advantages of a BP, as it's already a 'back-inflate', plus I upgraded mine with a 'crotch strap'......so depending on what you owned as your 'old' BC, a BP may not exactly represent a quantum leap forward. I'll admit I've retired my Ranger to a back-up/travel BC, mainly as it's almost completely unsuitable for customization/modification, I can 'get by' diving the Ranger, but it's definitely 'second fiddle' compared to my 'real' BC, a 'hybrid' Deepoutdoors Matrix harness/Oxycheq wing......which has the advantages of a 'rec' BC (quick release buckles/back pad)...with the advantages of a BP (AL backplate/STA/webbing that allows me to add-subtract-reposition accessories like can lights/pockets/weight pockets/ D-rings).

...so I've never bought into the 'dive a BP-only or die' school of thought...be independent enough to apply common sense to your particular needs.

 

[peterbj7]

No offense but it doesn't sound like you do very much cold water diving. The nice thing about a BP/W is you DON'T have to carry that much additional weight because a SS backplate will already weigh 6lbs. I carry 6 additional lbs of lead in a weight belt with an AL80 and 7mm farmer johns. You also only need a wing with enough capacity to float your rig at the surface. No matter how much buoyancy your suit loses at depth it will never be negative.

Again as far as a "flapping wing" to get in your way, it sounds like your wing is WAY to huge. I use a 26lb DSS torus wing I can't even tell it's there. The wing itself is more narrow than my shoulders are. I've also never had any problem dumping air from it.

You're right, I don't. I last dived dry two months ago with a single tank/jacket BC, and before then hadn't dived OC in cold water for probably three years. I did a few hundred CCR dives around Britain & Ireland. But before I moved down here to Belize I had done 1200-1500 cold water dives around Britain & in Alaska. So I've done a few cold water dives with open circuit gear. How many do you have?

What you say about "you only need a wing with enough capacity to float your rig at the surface" is absurd and dangerously wrong. You just think about it. If you doubt what I say, just look up reports on deaths in the Blue Hole in Dahab and also (to a lesser extent) Dorothea Quarry in Wales.

I'm trying to visualise a 26lb wing on a standard English Channel dive wearing my compressed neoprene drysuit with weights (whether in the form of a backplate or lead), lamps, reels, DSMBs, lift bags, etc. I'm afraid I can't.

 

[StreetDoctor]

What you say about "you only need a wing with enough capacity to float your rig at the surface" is absurd and dangerously wrong. You just think about it. If you doubt what I say, just look up reports on deaths in the Blue Hole in Dahab and also (to a lesser extent) Dorothea Quarry in Wales.

I'm trying to visualise a 26lb wing on a standard English Channel dive wearing my compressed neoprene drysuit with weights (whether in the form of a backplate or lead), lamps, reels, DSMBs, lift bags, etc. I'm afraid I can't.

Absurd and dangerously wrong? In my brief 70 dive history using trial and error, what my instructors have taught me, and what I've read here doing research during my purchases this is what I've read and came up with for MY setup, requiring me to only need a rig that is able to float itself at the surface. Since you're an instructor and I'm not that great at looking things up on the internet why don't you explain why it's so dangerous and why it's caused so many deaths in Dahab and Wales?


-7mm Farmer john will say 20lbs positive at the surface. Remember it'll never be negative, maybe closer to neutral at depth but never negative.
-AL80 -4 full/+4 empty
-regulator -2
-can light -2.5
-finger spool/dsmb maybe -0.5?
-6lb DSS SS backplate
-6lbs ditachable lead on weight belt
That makes -21 total

Like I said before I wear a 26lb DSS Torus wing very capable of floating -21lbs on the surface and controlling my buoyancy at depth.

The above calculations make me roughly 1lb negative at the beginning of the dive but I have to account for my closer to empty positive AL80 during the end of my dive and maintaining safety stops. Please explain in your vast knowledge where exactly the danger lies? If you're wearing a drysuit, AND carrying a lift bag, AND a dsmb all can be used as backup emergency buoyancy devices in the event of complete wing failure.

 

[scubafanatic]

You're right, I don't. I last dived dry two months ago with a single tank/jacket BC, and before then hadn't dived OC in cold water for probably three years. I did a few hundred CCR dives around Britain & Ireland. But before I moved down here to Belize I had done 1200-1500 cold water dives around Britain & in Alaska. So I've done a few cold water dives with open circuit gear. How many do you have?

What you say about "you only need a wing with enough capacity to float your rig at the surface" is absurd and dangerously wrong. You just think about it. If you doubt what I say, just look up reports on deaths in the Blue Hole in Dahab and also (to a lesser extent) Dorothea Quarry in Wales.

I'm trying to visualise a 26lb wing on a standard English Channel dive wearing my compressed neoprene drysuit with weights (whether in the form of a backplate or lead), lamps, reels, DSMBs, lift bags, etc. I'm afraid I can't.

...I quite agree with you on that...I'm not sure what's up with those that advocate diving the bare minimum capacity wing possible.....in a beautiful/perfect world that's fine, but I prefer to have extra 'contingency' capacity incase Murphy ever shows up, but that's just how I roll.

 

[drdaddy]

Recently took the plunge and bought a Halcyon BP/W set-up after reading all the "sturm and drang" on this board for years. My verdict: it's OK, but barely different (if at all) from a basic, pedestrian BC.

Give me good diving conditions and interesting marine life and, frankly, I couldn't care less about equipment (providing it's safe, of course).

So, I don't get it. Why don't people on this board care more about what they're seeing underwater instead of worrying about what they're wearing?

Hello Ippy,

I'm smiling. I admit that I did write "pseudo tech" etc., on purpose. It really gets people going. There are a lot of people who are into looks and hype in all sports/recreational activities. you have to work through this stuff and then figure out what works for you. As you have noticed some people take this real personally, others have tried and found that the BP isn't for them. Some people it works for and others it doesn't.

I still maintain that the majority of serious divers who do hundreds of dives wear a regular high quality BCD - this has been my observation in both the cold waters of the Pacific NW and the tropical warm waters of the Red Sea.

Whatever works for you is best and don't worry about what others say or do.

 

[StreetDoctor]

...I quite agree with you on that...I'm not sure what's up with those that advocate diving the bare minimum capacity wing possible.....in a beautiful/perfect world that's fine, but I prefer to have extra 'contingency' capacity incase Murphy ever shows up, but that's just how I roll.

What exactly is all that extra lift capacity going to help you with?

 

[scubafanatic]

What exactly is all that extra lift capacity going to help you with?

...well, I'm not an 'instructor', and I don't play one on TV...but here's a few tid bits to chew on:

...are you always gonna be diving AL 80's ? ...might you ever be interested in a steel 95, 100 or 120 cu. ft. tank at some point ? ...those are more 'negative'.

...ever anticipate you might need reserve bouyancy to assist another diver underwater ?

...ever anticipate the possibility of being caught on a strong 'downdraft' and maybe need the ability to significantly increase your bouyancy to arrest the descent ? (without having to ditch weights and then suffer a self-inflicted runaway ascent.)

...ever anticipate floating on the surface in high waves/seas and having the extra bouyancy to keep your head high enough out of the water ?

...I could go on and on and on here but I think you see the point...I hope !