BP/W: I officially don't get it

[vjanelle]

Are you diving in a dry suit, thus not using the bp/w to adjust your buoyancy?

 

[Walter]

Recently took the plunge and bought a Halcyon BP/W set-up after reading all the "sturm and drang" on this board for years. My verdict: it's OK, but barely different (if at all) from a basic, pedestrian BC.......So, I don't get it.

It depends on what you were using before. A BC is a BC. Some are well designed and some aren't. Some well designed BCs are BP/wing, some are vests, some are horse collars and some are back inflate. There are also poorly designed BCs that are BP/wing, vests, horse collars and back inflate. Most BCs are vests and it is an excellent basic design, but most vests have been marketed and improved until they are junk. A nice, streamlined vest is getting harder and harder to find. Scubapro Classic Sport is an example of a well designed BC. I think their other styles are crap, but the Classic Sport is excellent. The major flaws with most BCs (of all styles, including BP/wing) are trapping air and not being streamlined. Padding and cummerbunds are really, really bad features to have on a BC. The advantage of a BP/wing is few of them have been improved to the point where they are crap. Most BP/wings are still streamlined. Few have padding or cummerbunds.

Majority of people in the world that dive a jacket BC dive 0-20 dives a year.

The majority of people who dive (no need to limit it), dives 1 - 20 dives in their life. Probably closer to 1 - 10 in their lives. Most folks learn in vests (I've yet to see a BC with sleeves), so of course your statement is true, but also pointless.

 

[StreetDoctor]

I also disagree that getting buoyancy right is easier with a wing than with a jacket-style BC. Most people, for simple open-ocean recreational diving, find a well fitting and well chosen jacket BC much more comfortable and intuitive, and easier to dump air from. Wings come into their own in cold water, when the inherent buoyancy of your suit means you have to carry a lot of weight down with you and hence need a lot of air at depth to compensate.

For most of my diving here in Belize I have a very thin and non-buoyant suit, so have little or no added air in my BC at any point in the dive. For this I use a jacket BC, which is very streamlined - no flapping wing to get in the way and slow me down. And with a shoulder dump, it's very easy to dump air progressively without really thinking about it. I have never used a wing that is as easy and predictable to get air out of, and I currently own 10 wings of different makes and sizes and have used at least that number of other ones.

No offense but it doesn't sound like you do very much cold water diving. The nice thing about a BP/W is you DON'T have to carry that much additional weight because a SS backplate will already weigh 6lbs. I carry 6 additional lbs of lead in a weight belt with an AL80 and 7mm farmer johns. You also only need a wing with enough capacity to float your rig at the surface. No matter how much buoyancy your suit loses at depth it will never be negative.

Again as far as a "flapping wing" to get in your way, it sounds like your wing is WAY to huge. I use a 26lb DSS torus wing I can't even tell it's there. The wing itself is more narrow than my shoulders are. I've also never had any problem dumping air from it.

 

[redacted]

Conventional BDC or BP/W - They both provide a way to hold a tank and to control buoyancy. Then its off to the smaller things. If you are completely happy with the locations and designs of pockets and clips then their may be little advantage on a BP/W except a little tertiary streamlining. But if you ever wanted another (or a stronger) clip here and just one pocket there then the BP/W will let you do those mods and so many others.

Yes, you do still see the same stuff.

 

[piikki]

The majority of people who dive (no need to limit it), dives 1 - 20 dives in their life. Probably closer to 1 - 10 in their lives. Most folks learn in vests (I've yet to see a BC with sleeves), so of course your statement is true, but also pointless.

Thanks for making it pointless. I probably was not talking about people who do not even own their own BCs, or do not make it through the 4 or so cert dives.

I have no axe to grind with people who prefer jacket BCs like some who have a life-long problem with the "hyped up" BP/W crowd.

 

[NorthWoodsDiver]

Recently took the plunge and bought a Halcyon BP/W set-up after reading all the "sturm and drang" on this board for years. My verdict: it's OK, but barely different (if at all) from a basic, pedestrian BC.

Give me good diving conditions and interesting marine life and, frankly, I couldn't care less about equipment (providing it's safe, of course).

So, I don't get it. Why don't people on this board care more about what they're seeing underwater instead of worrying about what they're wearing?

Because no one makes a "Hogarthian" rig in a conventional type bcd system...

 

[Cave Bum]

Recently took the plunge and bought a Halcyon BP/W set-up after reading all the "sturm and drang" on this board for years. My verdict: it's OK, but barely different (if at all) from a basic, pedestrian BC.

So, I don't get it. Why don't people on this board care more about what they're seeing underwater instead of worrying about what they're wearing?

Oh dear! Despite the "BP/W" hype, they do NOT inevitably go together. Of my maybe 3000 dives with a wing, only maybe 500 were also with a backplate. The rest were with a soft-back harness, mostly the DiveRite Transpac II.

The Backplate/wing combination is an effective tool for lots of diving conditions. I use one for most of my doubles diving if I'm close to home. (I don't like lugging them on a plane, though, for that I usually take my Transpac or my Nomad)

The main thing is it tends to make the diver put the weight in the correct position -ie- centered even with the lift in the horizontal plane. The point of Bill Main's entire Hogartian system is streamlining, having no drag, just like a well designed airplane. The wing system, whether it's with a backplate or a Transpac is designed to do that.

The trouble tends to come in when divers add weight pockets on the waist belt, thus causing a 'feet low' condition. This isn't how the system is designed to work.

Have your dive buddy look at you in the water and if possible take pictures with an object you know is horizontal in the background to see how level you really are (we usually 'feel' like we're more head down then we really are). Experiment with different weight postions -ie- on the tank or 'V' weights between double aluminum 80's for folks diving those. Do everything you can to get yourself perfectly level and you'll be amazed just how much it reduces your gas consumption, I was!

Be safe and have fun in the water! Bruce

 

[WavyGravy]

Used my new DSS BP/W for the first time this weekend in Tobermory and the first thing I noticed has been mentioned in a few of the above posts - weight. A SS plate, with weights bolted to it take a considerable amount of weight from your waist and moves it to your rig (12 lbs in my case).

I'm not sure if the OP dives cold, but for me that alone made a big difference coming from rented BCDs.

 

[cwkline]

Gear configurations are a personal choice, and I firmly believe in the "Try Before You Buy" if possible. I was fortunate that the shop I used on the mainland had that attitude. The owner didn't like selling gear to "newbies" unless they tried it first.
I use a BP/W for pretty much all my diving. It started as a way to get comfortable with the rig before bolting doubles to it. I liked it so much that I continue to use it on recreational dives. Is it more comfortable than my soft BC? No, but I like the way it feels and the way it trims out. I also like the fact that I need no weight added. But that is what works for me, and may not be the best gear for you.
You could sell the rig while it is still almost new. You will lose some cash, but gain some wisdom.

 

[rustyshakelford]

bp/w is just a tool in the tool box. i mainly dive doubles with stage bottles slung and wouldnt dare try that with a bcd. i also enjoy the weight i can drop when diving singles and a SS bp. i think they are great for people that get them for a specific purpose but those that buy them because a internet forum said to might be a little disappointed

brett