BP/W for me and my son?

[LowDrag]

I've provided volumes of topic specific advice and examples. Are you suggesting that I and others should let falsehoods go unchallenged? How does this help, particularly how does it help those considering a BP&W and the factors associated with them?

Note the OP Mark, has contacted me, and I made a specific recommendation. Mark posted about this interaction. Beyond that I have no additional information.

Tobin

Not at all, but I do feel that when someone keeps arguing with you regardless of whether you are right, wrong or otherwise, give it up. Between you, Stuartv and Beaverdivers this thread has gone way beyond answering the OP's question and morphed out into it's own direction. I am interested in what the OP is going to do and the three of you are cluttering the crap out of this thread. Seriously, we all know that you know what you are talking about so why keep trying to prove it? If someone wants to be stubborn about a subject, then after a few posts I would ignore them so they can go away. It's not like you are joining a popularity contest, you have proven that many many times over the years I have been reading your posts. Remember the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". You have lead the horse now let him make up his own mind whether he wants to drink or not.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Not at all, but I do feel that when someone keeps arguing with you regardless of whether you are right, wrong or otherwise, give it up. Between you, Stuartv and Beaverdivers this thread has gone way beyond answering the OP's question and morphed out into it's own direction. I am interested in what the OP is going to do and the three of you are cluttering the crap out of this thread. Seriously, we all know that you know what you are talking about so why keep trying to prove it? If someone wants to be stubborn about a subject, then after a few posts I would ignore them so they can go away. It's not like you are joining a popularity contest, you have proven that many many times over the years I have been reading your posts. Remember the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". You have lead the horse now let him make up his own mind whether he wants to drink or not.

So let me understand. I'm supposed to counter idiocy once per thread and then ignore it there after?

I know it's not a popularity contest. Much of what I post isn't particularly popular. Often I am motivated to counter falsehoods because I know most members, frequently new members and newer divers read, but never post. IMO it's no service to them to let falsehoods stand.

Tobin

 

[Adobo]

Not at all, but I do feel that when someone keeps arguing with you regardless of whether you are right, wrong or otherwise, give it up. Between you, Stuartv and Beaverdivers this thread has gone way beyond answering the OP's question and morphed out into it's own direction. I am interested in what the OP is going to do and the three of you are cluttering the crap out of this thread. Seriously, we all know that you know what you are talking about so why keep trying to prove it? If someone wants to be stubborn about a subject, then after a few posts I would ignore them so they can go away. It's not like you are joining a popularity contest, you have proven that many many times over the years I have been reading your posts. Remember the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". You have lead the horse now let him make up his own mind whether he wants to drink or not.

The problem though is the occasional guy who shows up, who seems to *not get it*, and then bam, they drop the bomb on you and show you something you had not thought about.

According to his profile, Beaverdivers is an experienced diver, instructor and retailer of scuba equipment. He says backplates can be dangerous in tropical diving. Maybe he thought of something I did not think about. Maybe he thought of something Tobin didn't think about. I don't take it for granted that Tobin knows everything.

Its entirely possible that Beaverdivers is playing coy and will continue to do so until he finds an opportune time to drop this scenario that is in fact worthwhile considering. And sometimes, you have to corner these guys before they will tell you what they have up their sleeves.

Personally, I'm in this for my own benefit. I dive an aluminum plate when I dive on vacation. If there is a scenario that I had not thought about and beaverdivers has, I'd like to hear it.

 

[LowDrag]

So let me understand. I'm supposed to counter idiocy once per thread and then ignore it there after?

I know it's not a popularity contest. Much of what I post isn't particularly popular. Often I am motivated to counter falsehoods because I know most members, frequently new members and newer divers read, but never post. IMO it's no service to them to let falsehoods stand.

Tobin

The point is why bother beating your head against the wall. You are stubborn Tobin, there is no denying that but why keep aggravating yourself with people who just don't get it. Just because someone is a new diver does not mean they don't see that the person arguing with you doesn't get it and that the new diver doesn't your point of view. You just keep beating your head against the and it gets old is all I am saying. Many readers are sitting back thinking, "oh, here we go again". Make your point and be done with it.

The problem though is the occasional guy who shows up, who seems to *not get it*, and then bam, they drop the bomb on you and show you something you had not thought about.

Agreed but this thread has gone on so long and so many posts have shown that Tobin is correct. Does Tobin know everything? Not hardly but he is very well experienced and has some good points. The person that is/was arguing with Tobin has been given the right info and refuses to see it so leave him behind and move on.

According to his profile, Beaverdivers is an experienced diver, instructor and retailer of scuba equipment. He says backplates can be dangerous in tropical diving. Maybe he thought of something I did not think about. Maybe he thought of something Tobin didn't think about. I don't take it for granted that Tobin knows everything.

His point is simple although it was not stated correctly and Tobin has even said basically the same thing. If you put together the wrong gear and over weight yourself it can be dangerous.

Of course he wants to sell his stuff that's why Beaverdiver is a retailer.

Personally, I'm in this for my own benefit. I dive an aluminum plate when I dive on vacation. If there is a scenario that I had not thought about and beaverdivers has, I'd like to hear it.

We are all in this for our own benefit, there is nothing wrong with that. There are many people that dive AL BP&W's on warm water dives. I used mine last April in Cozumel with a 3mm wetsuit with ZERO issues. Using the amount of weight I used, I probably could have used my steel plate and been just fine. The point is, let's quit silting out the conversation so that some good information can come from this discussion. The information is here we just need to let the silt settle so it can be seen and understood.

 

[beaverdivers]

The problem though is the occasional guy who shows up, who seems to *not get it*, and then bam, they drop the bomb on you and show you something you had not thought about.

According to his profile, Beaverdivers is an experienced diver, instructor and retailer of scuba equipment. He says backplates can be dangerous in tropical diving. Maybe he thought of something I did not think about. Maybe he thought of something Tobin didn't think about. I don't take it for granted that Tobin knows everything.

Its entirely possible that Beaverdivers is playing coy and will continue to do so until he finds an opportune time to drop this scenario that is in fact worthwhile considering. And sometimes, you have to corner these guys before they will tell you what they have up their sleeves.

Personally, I'm in this for my own benefit. I dive an aluminum plate when I dive on vacation. If there is a scenario that I had not thought about and beaverdivers has, I'd like to hear it.

I will answer your questions & others. I do believe there are Worst-Case Scenarios that could put a diver wearing a BP/W in serious trouble.

But right now I am headed to the pool to training divers.

No rest for the wicked even over Labor Day weekend !

 

[bryanmc57]

I will answer your questions & others. I do believe there are Worst-Case Scenarios that could put a diver wearing a BP/W in serious trouble.

I'm interested to read your scenarios. Hopefully you have some that relate to a bp/w specifically, as opposed to being over weighted, which can happen with any form of BC. As to one of your earlier posts regarding which bp/w would be best for a 5'6" 110lb diver (I think those were the specs) in warm and cold water, are you proposing the that the SP Knighthawk with 30 lbs of lift (in the s and xs size) would be optimal?

 

[cool_hardware52]

BP&W are a modular BC. That can be a two edged sword. It allows optimization for a given narrow application, or it allows a "compromise" choice of components useful across a wider range of applications.

I'm not sure why this is even an issue.

What exposure suit is ideal for warm and cold water?

Tobin

 

[RJP]

What exposure suit is ideal for warm and cold water?

A trilam drysuit... duh!

 

[cool_hardware52]

A trilam drysuit... duh!

With the same undies? I doubt it. Good quality cold water undies can make a 2nd wing or plate look inexpensive.

The reality for this discussion is most will be using wetsuits. Divers routinely purchase more than one exposure suit based on the conditions. Somehow the idea persists that the BC needs to universal, equator to the arctic, al 80s to E-8 130's

Tobin

 

[halocline]

I will answer your questions & others. I do believe there are Worst-Case Scenarios that could put a diver wearing a BP/W in serious trouble.

But right now I am headed to the pool to training divers.

I guess the beav forgot to enlighten us with his answer about how a BP/W can be hazardous. Too busy teaching students, doubtlessly in jacket BCs with air2s attached.

This is a perfect example of why I feel that scuba instruction would get a lot better if it were separated from gear sales.