Bodies Recovered in School Sink aka Wayne's World, Hudson, FL

[aue-mike]

I think bdp375 is confused in regard to cave certifications. There is no "lvl 2" certification (aside from GUE Cave 2, which they were not; edit - and apparently NAUI), and there is no cave classification that identifies Wayne's World as "lvl 7".

They should not have been diving this system, and should not have been given permission to dive it (if they were even given permission), per the standards and requirements specified by the property owner (NSS-CDS).

School Sink (Wayne's World) Access Policy

The NSS-CDS as part of a joint partnership with Pasco County Schools System purchased School Sink in 2004. The purchase was for approximately four and one-half acres, of which the NSS-CDS acquired one acre with the remaining going to Pasco County.

School Sink is an advanced cave dive with low visibility, depths to 160 feet, and varying flows due to tidal influence. School Sink is considered an advanced cave dive and the access policy is written with this in mind.

Policy:

Comply with general diving requirements plus the following:
1. Must show proof of completion of 100 cave dives after the completion of full cave training.
2. Either have previously performed dives in School Sink or dive with a cave diver familiar with the system.
3. Shall be certified to utilize breathing gases appropriate for depths beyond 130 FSW per NSS-CDS Standards and Procedures.
4. Shall have DAN diving accident insurance or equivalent
5. Must hold a DPV specialty card or show proof of prior experience and have logged at least 5 swim dives in School Sink before a DPV may be used in the system.
6. Complete a Cave Observation Form upon completion of the dive and give it to the Property Manager within 1 week of the dive.

Complete Policy

Property Manager:

Waivers can be obtained from the property manager and must be turned in before diving.

This information can be found on the NSS-CDS website here:
Cave Diving Section of the National Speleological Society


Mike

 

[contender]

I think bdp375 is confused in regard to cave certifications. There is no "lvl 2" certification (aside from GUE Cave 2, which they were not; edit - and apparently NAUI), and there is no cave classification that identifies Wayne's World as "lvl 7".

They should not have been diving this system, and should not have been given permission to dive it (if they were even given permission), per the standards and requirements specified by the property owner (NSS-CDS).




This information can be found on the NSS-CDS website here:
Cave Diving Section of the National Speleological Society


Mike

You edited your post at the same time I posted.
NAUI has a Cave 1, 2, and 3 course!!!!! Very good courses as well.

 

[BabyDuck]

but where does the 7 come from? that's what's confusing.

always sorry to hear stuff like this.

 

[contender]

but where does the 7 come from? that's what's confusing.

always sorry to hear stuff like this.

There is not a level 7, it was simply an analogy to help people understand. WW is a very advanced cave dive, not a tourist cave.

 

[rockg]

Condolences to their family and friends...a real shame for all of us...

 

[bpd375]

The only level 2 cave certification I am aware of is GUE's Cave 2, which I'm sure they were not. I believe you mean they were Intro/Basic certified based on what I have read on other forums. Actually, I read one was Intro and the other was not even cavern, but that could be misinformation. Regardless, Wayne's World is an advanced cave dive. It is owned by the CDS and the CDS requires a minimum of Abe Davis level (100 safe cave dives post full cave training) before you are given access to the system. That would indicate these 2 divers were trespassing. WW is a deep, dark system where even very experienced cave divers have had issues. I believe it can also be tidally effected. I've never been to Wayne's World, but I have been in systems like it. It is definitely not a place for inexperience.

bpd, I'm not familiar with "lvl 7 cave system". Can you provide me a link to this grading system? Also, do you know if the divers were in single tanks or doubles?

Bottom line is that they were in over their experience and training and made reckless mistakes. They were signed in with permission to dive. What happened on that end remains unknown right now. The mistakes they made were very, very avoidable. I hate to say that about friends but it is what it is.

 

[Juno]

They were not trespassing as they have been to this location several times and were signed in with permission to dive. What happened on that end remains unknown right now. They were in proper equipment, using doubles. The mistakes they made were very, very aviodable and just down right stupid. I hate to say that about friends but it is what it is. I'll be monitoring this thread throughout the day and will post more as I'm able to and as more becomes available to us.

It would be sad indeed if they were given permission but not documented to have 100 full cave dives after completing full cave. Let's hope that is not the case.

School sink has lots of lines/jumps/tees, is tidally influenced ,soft walls, halocline's in some area's, silt in a lot of area's, varying degrees of visibilty (none of it great on my dives).
I have turned dives in there because I have run out of markers for the jumps and tee's.

 

[DeepSea]

I am very curious as to who you are. You are talking a pretty good game but I am not aware of anyone that was on the phone with you during the recovery operation. I am also not sure where you are getting your information about cave certifications because you are 100% wrong.

The level system was relayed to me by others at the scene. I wish I knew what they were talking about or what system they were referencing. Bottom line is that they were in over their experience and training and made reckless mistakes. Their info hasn't been updated correctly as they both do have certifications for cave and cavern. They were not trespassing as they have been to this location several times and were signed in with permission to dive. What happened on that end remains unknown right now. They were in proper equipment, using doubles. The mistakes they made were very, very aviodable and just down right stupid. I hate to say that about friends but it is what it is. I'll be monitoring this thread throughout the day and will post more as I'm able to and as more becomes available to us.

 

[BDSC]

Like so many others have said, my condolences go out to their family and friends.

I have often read or heard about untrained divers going into caves and not making it back. (I know these guys were certified) I always thought how stupid can you get to do such a thing and why on earth would you do it if you weren't trained. Then I went to the Florida springs shortly after I was certified. I don't remember which spring system I was at but me and my buddy went for a dive in the open water part of the spring. As we were diving we came to the entrance of the cave system. So we swam over to the opening and looked in. I remember the water being so crystal clear and I found myself really wanting to just go in "a few feet". I just wanted to "peek" inside. What was the harm in that I thought. It was really a strong sensation to want to just check it out a little. Thank God we never crossed that line even though we both wanted to. What would have happened? Who knows. Maybe nothing. But I'm sure that's the same thing other people have thought and never made it back. So now I can see how someone could make that decision. Still a dumb decision anyway you look at it but I know the allure.

We can't over emphasize on here to keep your diving within your training.

BDSC

 

[ucfdiver]

Absolutely horrible. My deepest condolences to the friends and family of the divers. It doesn't matter at this point (aside obviously from others learning from it) if these two were OW students on dive #6 or the two most experienced Cave Instructors in the state. The results are equally as tragic. Our wonderful SCUBA community lost two more members. I am definitely saddened by reading about this.

It's just as tragic, but necessary to learn the skill levels of the divers so we can learn from this mistake, analyze training procedures, and try to see what we can do to prevent this from happening again.

Some news articles I have read stated they had permission to dive there (not trespassing) but certifaction level was still in question.

If they did have permission, it shouldn't matter. Any certified cave diver should be able to analyze a cave and know when it's time to come back in a year or two. Even a cave diver with 100 post full cave dives who only dives a few times a year should know better than to attempt some of these systems.