Boat seat belts

[peterbj7]

high speed inter-island ferries

I don't see why a boat must have a seat, much less a seat belt. But if you want one, install one, just don't lobby to try to make me install one

Need I say more? I'm not talking about privately used boats, but commercial transport boats.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I don't see why a boat must have a seat, much less a seat belt. But if you want one, install one, just don't lobby to try to make me install one.

Sure, if you have a canoe.
Ferries can be damned uncomfortable and dangerous if you had to stand. Ergo seats. In rough seas, a seatbelt on said seats, might help those passengers who are weaker, elderly, or young, maintain a safer ride. I don't regularly take ferries, but have in some of the places I have traveled through. And those ferries aren't like your Bass boat or 20ft cruiser. They are big, fast, and they do not stop for bad weather. I could see the need in those cases. We aren't talking about personal pleasure craft.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

A motorcyclist would have to be crazy to ride at over 100mph in heavy three lane traffic, at any rate the sort of bike-ignorant traffic I've seen in the parts of the States I've driven in. The UK and Europe are a bit different as motorists (car drivers) are mostly far more bike-aware, but even so riding at those speeds in close proximity to other traffic is not a recipe for a long life. I have ridden much faster than 100mph close to traffic, but only when I have an escape route. If I'm surrounded by traffic I feel very uncomfortable.

I agree. Welcome to the Middle East. And the traffic here is unbelievable. Many of the American, Canadian, and English people living here, refuse to drive. I like being in control and am well used to it. The drivers are very aggressive and it makes for interesting times. Also, some unbelievable crashes. They also have the money for the super high ends sports cars, and they use them to their fully capability. And they don't seem to mind crashing them. Bikes are really nuts. They take crazy chances and I wouldn't even be out there in the normal traffic. I had a bike from age 10 and grew up with Kawasaki's. Not here. Ever.

 

[Paladin]

Just out of curiosity and for comparative purposes...

You named about 5 anomalies that weighed your decision not to wear belts. How many instances did you see where a seat belt probably saved the life of the person involved in an accident?

In all honesty, that is difficult to answer. Of course, I have seen accidents where there were survivors. But the reasons for their survival were not known to me. Were they wearing seat belts? I don't know. Maybe. As a long haul trucker, the majority of the accidents I saw were of the type that seat belts wouldn't have mattered either way. The images that stuck in my mind were the horrific ones where the victim might have survived if it were not for a seat belt malfunction or if there had been more freedom of movement. Or, in the odd case where the seat belt itself caused injury.

In my own case, I was going through an intersection across a four lane highway. I had the green light and had just started across when I saw a pickup coming at me from the left at a pretty good clip and that he was going to run the red light. I knew I didn't have a chance of getting out of his way and all I knew to do was to dive for the passenger's side. A half second later, the driver's side of my vehicle was completely demolished. My vehicle was pushed off the road, into a ditch. I managed to crawl out of the passenger side and get away from the wreck. The impact caused massive subcutaneous hematoma (sp?) in my left leg and I was off my feet for three months as the blood vessels in my leg rerouted and healed. I still have trouble with that leg. The other driver was killed. I don't know if he was wearing a seat belt or not. I never asked. But if I'd been wearing a seat belt, I would have been smashed right there in the driver's seat.

Have there been accidents I've witnessed where seat belts saved lives. Probably. They just aren't the ones that burned themselves into my memory.

The two road accidents that have had the greatest effect on me, I think, involved trapped victims in burning vehicles. The first happened on a narrow, two-lane road in Southern West Virginia. I was hauling mine timbers to a mine in Raleigh County and I was taking my time and being as careful as possible on a bad road. A little red two-door sedan had been riding my six for several miles and it was obvious she wanted around me. She suddenly shot around me, passing me on a curve, and was out of sight in seconds. A few minutes later, I found her car lying on its side in somebody's front yard. Several other motorists and another trucker had pulled over to help and I pulled my rig off the road and got out.

The woman in the car was unconscious. Her windows were up and her doors were locked. Smoke was coming from the engine compartment. Somebody broke a window and climbed into the car. They couldn't get the seat belt unbuckled. The car suddenly caught fire and the rescuers were forced to back away. The other trucker and I grabbed our fire extinguishers but the fire was too intense. We couldn't put it out. We could smell burning flesh mixed with the smells of burning oil and gasoline. Thankfully, the woman never regained consciousness.

The second was down in North Carolina coming off Fancy Gap. A a south bound fuel tanker's brakes overheated and failed. Two North Carolina Troopers were running ahead of the rig, trying to clear the way. At the bottom of the mountain, the driver lost control and jack-knifed. The tanker ruptured and spilled fuel onto the cab. The fuel ignited. The driver tried to get out, but he couldn't get his seat belt undone. Whether it was a mechanical malfunction or his own state of panic, I don't know. When the fire took him, he was screaming for the Troopers to shoot him. Of course, they couldn't. Legally, that would have been murder.

I have been unfortunate enough to have witnessed several deaths by fire, the first when I was only four. The house next door to ours caught fire and three small children died. And, as previously mentioned, one of my old flight instructors. Back when I was a kid, I had a part time job at a horse stable. One night, there was a fire and the horses all died. The authorities later learned that the stable's owner had set the fire to collect the insurance. The horses weren't human, but they screamed as they died. I'm not frightened by many things, but death by fire is right there at the top of the list. I decided years ago that I would rather take my chances without a seat belt and rely on my skill as a driver, situational awareness and defensive driving. It's worked so far, knock on wood.

Does this mean that I advise others to do the same. Absolutely not. It just happens to be my choice, my way of dealing with my own demons.

This is too depressing. If I were a drinking man, I'd go tie one on. But I'm not, so I'll just leave things as they are and try to get some sleep.

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

Geeesh......seat belts save so many lives....who can argue that?

 

[peterbj7]

Paladin - I can understand from your experiences why you have your views. I wouldn't want to have been present at any of those scenes.

 

[AfterDark]

I didn't suggest that people should be compelled to use seat belts, but that the operator should be compelled to provide them. When I'm sitting on a bench seat in a cabin perhaps 40ft long in a boat travelling at night at 40mph, I am acutely aware of what would happen to me and everyone else if the boat suddenly stopped (by hitting something). In the incident I referred to, which was not untypical, it appeared that all the injuries, very severe in a number of cases and fatal in one, were caused by unrestrained people being thrown against hard surfaces in the boat. Just as would happen in a car, but with a far greater distance for their bodies to accelerate before impact.

Modern seatbelts are very easy and quick to open. The risk of being trapped in a sinking boat by the belt is remote. The risk of being trapped anyway because you can't find the exit is far greater, and especially if you have been injured by being thrown against something.

In the UK seat belt wearing is mandatory and rigidly enforced. The statistics show that it saves lives and prevents many serious injuries. There have been cases where someone in the front seat of a car was killed by being hit during a crash by an unrestrained person in the back, and in fact an official film was shown simulating this. The evidence is so overwhelming that courts will now routinely award massive damages against the rear seat passenger - posthumously in most cases.

If a car crash has been severe enough to cause a modern car to catch fire, it is probable that anyone not wearing a belt would already have been seriously injured and would be unable to get out anyway. Again, the statistics show that it is extremely rare for someone otherwise able to get out who doesn't because they can't release their belt. People "thrown clear" are generally injured far more severely than those who were restrained in the car.

I presume you're also opposed to the fitment of air bags? For years now their fitment has been mandatory on the manufacturers, and in Europe at any rate (I don't know about the US) it is either impossible to disable them or a criminal offence to try to do so. Yet air bags have been known to cause injuries, especially to small people. It's just that they have prevented way more injuries than they have caused.

If seat belts were fitted to boats then just as in cars I would expect people to use them, and after an acclimatisation period for that use to become mandatory in at least some countries. If I were so restrained and I were hit and injured by you, having chosen not to restrain yourself, I would without any question sue you, or maybe my estate would sue yours, as having been directly responsible for my injuries. That's regardless of any criminal prosecution. You should think less about "me" and more about others.

Yes you are correct. I installed a kill switch on my airbag. Sue me? Not the operators? You’d be very disappointed. My assets wouldn’t pay your legal fees.
I’m glad you live in the UK we have enough of your kind of thinking here already.

 

[peterbj7]

I don't live in the UK.....

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Just a little note. Here in Kuwait, this year, in the first 180 days of this year, there were 186 fatal car accidents in this country. Averages a little over one a day. That doesn't include even a nod to the non-fatal accidents. These stats stick out in my mind. And it is the norm in this area of the world.

 

[AfterDark]

I don't live in the UK.....

Oh I thought San Pedro, Belize and Oxford, UK was in the UK. Wherever you are is fine as long as it's not here.