Boat Crew Setting Up Gear?

[Walter]

For cryin' out loud, Walter, it was a drift dive. You gotta follow the DM or you won't get picked up by the boat. Just tell me how to plan a dive the way you learn in OW class when you are drift diving with a group? Either you will dive a the DM's plan or you shouldn't get off the boat.

Actually, your statement was not limited to live boating such as they do in Cozumel, but applied to any "exotic dive spot," although you did add "particularly in a place like Cozumel." Additionally, I don't live boat, I take a float to Cozumel. The boat crew can always find me, it doesn't have such an easy time finding the DM. The DM is welcome to dive his plan, I assume he's qualified to know his limits and stay within them. OTOH, so am I. I'll dive my own plan.

 

[SeaJay]

I'm with Walter on this one.

...And I'm not the kind of person that cares if they think I'm rude or not. I'm the customer - I paid for the dive. It's their job to give me what I'm looking for... Which to me, is simply a ride to the dive site and back.

On the other hand, I understand that some people are looking for more than just transportation... They want "local expertise," or supervision, or someone to change their tanks or whatever... That's fine and dandy. I'm not one of those people. It's the DM's job to deliver to the customer his or her expectations. I understand that some expect to be catered to - I expect that nobody else touches my life support. I make that clear from the outset, and I haven't had one DM fail to deliver to me exactly what I was looking for in a dive charter.

I don't let valet parkers park my truck, either... And that's just a truck - we're talking about life support equipment here.

I will tell you this, though... If the boat crew won't let me dive because they feel the need to fondle my gear before I dive - I'll call the dive. If I know that a diver onboard is not capable of assembling their own gear - I'll call the dive. I haven't had that happen yet, but believe me, I have no issues with calling the dive.

I don't care if they think I'm a scuba snob or not... It's my job to dive and to pay the bill. It's their job to deliver to me what I've purchased.

That said, I consider the boat captain a dive team member and inform him of our plan... Which is more than, "hit bottom, go that way, and come up." Think SADDDDD.

S - Sequence. What "formation" the team will be in, who's where, and a short list of what happens when/where.
A - Air. Starting pressure, turn pressure, rock bottom (see http://www.DeepSouthDivers.org/homerockbottom.html for explanation).
D - Depth. Max and average depths on the dive. Which are usually used to figure...
D - Duration. Turn time, ascent time, max bottom time (if you say "41 minutes" to the boat captain and surface at 41 minutes, it's a great thing.)
D - Distance. Expected distances - especially important on a drift dive.
D - Direction. Compass headings, underwater navigation. Set compasses.
D - Deco. What's the deco obligation? If there isn't one, do you plan to do a "safety stop?" What depths are you going to pause, if at all? You'll need to know this for your rock bottom calculation anyway.

Even on a "tropical" dive.

The whole process takes like 5 minutes on "recreational" dives, can be done on the way to the dive site, and gets everybody on the same page so that nobody lags behind (or gets ahead), annoying the heck out of everyone else.

Prior to entering the water, a full buddy check is done. I do not touch even my buddy's gear - I simply ask them to show me that things work. If a DM INSISTS that he "know" for sure that my gear is good to dive - if he INSISTS that he knows that my gas is on... Then I'll invite him to watch when we do our buddy check... But we usually lose him mentally when we go through SADDDDD anyway.

This might seem a bit "retentive," but if you do it on every dive (instead of having one set of rules for one "kind" of diving and another for another "kind" of diving) then you'll get really good at it, be well versed and well practiced, and all of your dives will run like clockwork. Why let even the "tropical" dives be left to chance? Why let them be left to chance ESPECIALLY if they're the cool tropical ones?

 

[mempilot]

There has been a lot of talk about the DM leading the dive. DM's don't lead dives, guides do. So there must be spare DM's on board to help with returning divers? Any operation that sends the only DM in to lead a dive isn't going anywhere near my gear. Maybe I don't run in to all the problems some of you do, because I don't pay to go on 'follow the leader' dive boats.

I don't let ramp agents preflight my aircraft, so I don't let DM's setup my gear. What's the big deal. No one is telling anyone they can't let a DM setup their gear. Those who do seem to be irritated that some of us don't want them to. What gives?

 

[TheRedHead]

There has been a lot of talk about the DM leading the dive. DM's don't lead dives, guides do. So there must be spare DM's on board to help with returning divers? Any operation that sends the only DM in to lead a dive isn't going anywhere near my gear. Maybe I don't run in to all the problems some of you do, because I don't pay to go on 'follow the leader' dive boats.

I don't let ramp agents preflight my aircraft, so I don't let DM's setup my gear. What's the big deal. No one is telling anyone they can't let a DM setup their gear. Those who do seem to be irritated that some of us don't want them to. What gives?

Mempilot, you and Walter are very experienced divers. The reason I started this thread in the new2scuba forum was to point out some of the things a very inexperienced diver might confront on a typical dive from a cruise ship. As far as having DMs on board to help with returning divers: The Cozumel dive was from a very small boat with 8 divers. There was a pilot on board who helped if necessary, but we all ascended at the same time with the DM. On Roatan, there was one person on board when we ascended. I don't know if he was a DM. The two people who led our dives looked more like DMs in training as there were both very young and had that exhausted look of slave labor. The dive leader of our group would hover in the water column in the Budha style holding her fin tips. Maybe she was trying to demonstrate superior buoyancy control. Both of the dive leaders were Aussies who worked for the resort.

On Belize the diver left to help returning divers was a Rescue certified diver, not a DM. Both of the guys who led the groups were DMs. There was also a local pilot, but he never left the boat, seldom left his station on top. There were 2 guys setting up the gear who never went into the water, so I'm not sure of their diving certifications. They were both local Rastafarians with big hats full of hair. My DM was a local, but very articulate and educated. The other DM was an expat Brit ex-navy "Seal" or their equivalent. Both were very qualified divers.

The boat in Roatan had no tag line and there was a current and slight surge. We were told to hang on the ladder to remove our fins and hand them up. That was a potentially dangerous situation. I just slipped my fins on my wrists instead of handing them up.

What you and Walter would do in an exotic port is defintely not the same thing a new diver would do. Most of the divers on the dive boats from the cruise did little other than follow along. Me and my buddy were the only divers who brought all our own equipment. A few brought fins and masks. One other diver had their own regulator. Most of the divers didn't have their log books and one claimed not to know what a log book was. Go figure.

Hardly anyone asked a question or questioned anything. That was the reality that I found and quite different from what I was taught in class or had practiced diving on my own locally.

 

[mempilot]

Point taken on the New2Scuba topic. Just make sure to check and recheck.

 

[SoCalAJ]

I have taught scuba diving in hawai for almost a year now, and most divers prefer that we set up there gear. Most divers only dive on vacation and all they want to do is get on the boat sit in there gear and we do the rest for them. On vacation they just want to relax and not worry and we take care all the equipment. We tell people up front if they want to set up there own gear they can because we respect the concerns that divers have about other people setting up there gear.

 

[diverbrian]

Since I normally dive doubles, my rig is typically set-up before I get to the boat. Boat captains and divemasters in this neck of the woods are not large on offering to set up another diver's gear for them. There are many obscene comments from divers directed at those that touch another's gear without asking sometimes. Typically we don't have an in-water DM either although the shop to I work for insists on providing one to keep the inexperienced cold-water divers from being a burden on the more experienced divers.

As for exotic travel travel, well let's just say that I don't often go to places that I can't drive to as airlines don't like to carry double tanks on the planes and finding places that will rent doubles is exceedingly difficult. The few times that I have broken down and travelled to those destinations where things are far more warm, boat crews make it optional. I always decline. It takes longer for me to inspect somebody else's work than it does to simply tear the rig down and start over to make sure that it is done right.

I typically do stay in the vicinity of the dive guides for one reason. They know the local waters and where the cool stuff is. I have missed to many critters by being stubborn in the ocean and diverging from the dive guide, LOL. Conversely, I got to see a beautiful blue parrotfish (huge) at a little better than 100 ft. because the dive guide got a glimpse of it, knew that I was capable of the depth and had EAN32, and that I had a camera. He didn't want to take the rest of the group down there due to mixed experience. That is one of the better underwater photos that I have gotten.

I simply adjust my dive plan to my capabilities/desires and try to intersect with the dive guide's dive plan. If the dive guide's plan is pushing limits too much, my buddy and I will make my dive a little more shallow or come back to the boat more quickly. So, I still dive my plan and take advantage of the dive guide if I can.

So, I am somewhere in between the attitude where the "boat is just transportation" and the "resort" philosophies and that works for me.

 

[Walter]

I got to see a beautiful blue parrotfish (huge) at a little better than 100 ft. because the dive guide got a glimpse of it

This one was pure chance. Parrottfish aren't territorial, the guide didn't know where to find it. Local guides often do know where some critters live.

 

[diverbrian]

This one was pure chance. Parrottfish aren't territorial, the guide didn't know where to find it. Local guides often do know where some critters live.

He was the local guide and he wasn't expecting to see it. Where it wasn't pure chance is that I didn't know that this was not a common find in those waters. The guide was a marine biologist and did know that fact.

You have to remember, some us only see two colors of fish in our normal diving. Oh yes, I forgot about the rare brown and green fish. We don't always know which ones are a opportunity to see and which you are likely to see on nearly every dive.

I was just saying that even for experienced divers that may not see warm, salt water often, a good dive guide can add a neat dimension to a dive.

 

[TCDiver1]

I was just saying that even for experienced divers that may not see warm, salt water often, a good dive guide can add a neat dimension to a dive.

I agree Brian. I'm not sure people who dive primarily in a warm, saltwater, ocean environment can truly appreciate what your saying. Unless of course they chose to visit us in the Great Lakes.

To the thread topic, i don't see what the big deal is. As others have noted. As long as you are the last one to check your rig before you dive it, something you should do even if you did set it up, who cares who set it up first?

The key thing is that your the last one to check it out before you take it for a drive.