Blue Hole Hit

[JeffG]

With all this talk of log books, who actually carries their log book into a shop or onto a boat and shows it to the owner/captain??

I've never been asked for my log book.

Me either...and I don't even use a paper version of it any more.

 

[Web Monkey]

So my question to you is this. If i am only an open water diver with 70 dives but someone else is an Advanced diver with 12 dives they should be allowed to dive deep?

As a dive guide i would feel a lot better with someone who has 70 dives and is OW than someone who is AOW and has 12...
M

Untimately, it's the diver's decision to go or not.

I think the real problem is that the cert. agencies are cranking out divers as fast as they can and aren't preparing them to make responsible decisions.

This is probably because telling someone that they may die or be crippled if they go on a dive they can't handle would put a damper on the industry.

The cert agencies, the dive ops and the equipment manufacturers have a great financial interest in promoting diving as a safe, exciting sport.

Nobody is making the new divers understand that their safety really rests soley with themselves and that Bad Things can easily happen. This leads them to make incorrect decisions regarding their personal safety. "If it was dangerous, they wouldn't take me there."

That's why new divers get taken to the Blue Hole. However it's not just exotic locations. I saw an instructor take a little old lady who could hardly stand up by herself, load her up with a big tank, a bunch of weight and drop her over the side of the boat into a local lake for a 100+ foot night dive.

This was her 7th dive ever.

Terry

 

[ScubaBabe22]

hahahah!!!! I agree, and I drive an SUV! I am only 20, but I've got over 60K miles under my belt on MY SUV, not to mention my Daddy's truck or Mom's SUV
....it seems to me that expierence is perhaps the most important aspect of life...which is why I am a better diver than many of my peers, but not when compared to my parents...well, more like my Dad- my mom is just a nervous driver!

 

[ScubaBabe22]

I carry it and I have had DMs ask to see it

 

[Dragon2115]

There is a bit of confusion as to what I mean by responsibilty/advice and persmission, or denial, for a particular dive. Let me try to be a bit clearer.

If I present myself to a Dive Op and say I want to dive Devil's Throat, let's say, I think the prudent thing to do is look at C card, log and give a brief description of what the dive entails. If that diver has over a 100 dives, is AOW and is current, then he does that dive at his or her own risk. If a diver arrives at the dive op with OW cert, two months of certification, and only 7 dives, none done below 70 ft, I think the diver op has an obligation to advise the diver against this dive. That diver might not be expereinced enough to even know what dives are really beyond their experience level.

Now, if a diver goes to that dive shop with fake log and C card, it is obvious that diver is defrauding the Dive Op and would be totally responsible for his own actions.

When I first dove the USS Spiegel Grove the dive op would not let me do that dive until I showed them my log that I had done a bunch of dives below 85 ft, I had about 40 dives below that depth then, some over 110ft and one to 138 ft. That was, I think, very responsible for them to require to see my log and advise me on that dive. A guy came in the shop after me, in his late teens early 20s, with no experience and was told he could not do the dive. That, to me, is a responsible Dive Op.

No one is attempting to transfer responsibility, but some things need to be addressed.

Sorry but I still see that you want to put the onus on the dive op. What you're asking is essentially to require each dive op to look at the dive they are running and maiking them know that a PADI OW is only good to 60', and that a NAUI OW is only to good to whatever it is, and so on for SSI, SDI, etc, etc.

Using your Spiegel Grove example, under the right weather conditions there's no reason why an OW diver can't cruise the top of the wreck where it's only at 60 fsw. (Might be even less now that she's rolled upright.) But if the dive op wishes to say no AOW, no dive. That's their prerogative and should be left as such and not required by some agency or act of legislature.

And as for you dive log, how does anyone know if those 40 dives you claim are real? Seriously, that's not an insult but rather a serious question. How can any dive op verify with any degree of certainty at all if what's in your log book is real or not. Sure, you AOW card is real, and if they want to call the issuing agency they can indeed verify it if they wanted to. But the reality is they're not going to because it's impractical and would do nothing but drive business away. So what's the point? Let Darwinism take it's course, the sport (and the species) will be better off for it in the long run.

 

[Mo2vation]

Ken, is it possible we are talking about two different incidents? The lady that I'm referring to was brought to the chamber on Tuesday, exactly one day before my boat went to the Blue Hole. I'm sure of that time frame. It doesn't seem likely that if your friend took a hit on Sunday that they would have waited till late afternoon, early evening on Tuesday to bring her up to the chamber.

She went there immediately after our 2nd dive. Don't think it could have been until Tuesday before treatment started.

Scary. Two in one place, same week.

---
Ken

 

[pilot fish]

She went there immediately after our 2nd dive. Don't think it could have been until Tuesday before treatment started.

Scary. Two in one place, same week.

---
Ken

Yes, that is a bit scary. The lady I'm referring to came off the boat on Tueday after noon/evening, right at San Pedro and went directly to the chamber by the airport on a stretcher. I wonder what the stats are on hits at the Hole. I realize your incident did not happen at the Hole. Hope both ladies recovered successfully

 

[valligurl]

My BF had just gotten his OW when he did the Blue Hole. It was his 7th dive if I remember correctly. We were with a very experienced group, including at least 7 divemasters, all of whom were close friends, and I had been diving with them for several years. I wasn't very happy about his going that deep, 140' , but he was thoroughly debriefed and the group was looking out for him. We only stayed that deep for 5 minutes. I had never been that deep either, and started feeling narced and made him come up a bit. I'm not defendng what we did, but it was a morale builder for him. That particular group could handle a new diver. But, for most people I think it's a bad idea.

 

[gjmmotors]

The AOW course is only to add experience under the supervision of an instructor. At least thats the way I see it. By no means are they advanced. They have only proved they could do 5 knowledge reviews, do five dives and live to brag about them.

As an instructor I never, ever show my pro card unless im using the boat to teach a class. Ive never shown anything except an AOW card if im diving for fun and most of the time I pull out my OW. Forget about a log. Log books are good to show off to your friends, but whos to say that I cant add a number in front of the dive number to add a hundred or so dives to my total? I personally havent logged my dives in a long time (my teaching dives are logged however).

As far as a person being capable after 9 dives you never know. They may be good enough to pull it off, were not talking a long penetration deco dive. Just a quick bounce. The person could just follow the guy in front. I was more suprised at the amount the boat guys charge the people to go out there.
If the people are willing to do it and the boat is willing to take them, no one will stop them.

-gm

With all this talk of log books, who actually carries their log book into a shop or onto a boat and shows it to the owner/captain??

I've never been asked for my log book.

 

[PaulChristenson]

As far as a person being capable after 9 dives you never know. They may be good enough to pull it off, were not talking a long penetration deco dive. Just a quick bounce. The person could just follow the guy in front. I was more suprised at the amount the boat guys charge the people to go out there.
If the people are willing to do it and the boat is willing to take them, no one will stop them.

-gm

Compared to an OW + AOW 9 dive wonder...what about the following??

What is the Accelerated Freefall Program (AFF)?
This program has 8 jumps to achieve....
Jump 1 - Two Jumpmasters
You first AFF jump requires six to eight hours of ground school. Two jumpmasters are assigned to each individual student and, weather permitting, you will be able to "suit up" and make your skydive! This provides for 40 seconds of freefall directly supervised by two certified jumpmasters and allows you to land your parachute with radio instruction.
Jump 2 - Two Jumpmasters
Two jumpmasters again exit the plane with you as you continue to learn the basic movements of body flight.
Jump 3 - Two Jumpmasters
You exit the plane with two jumpmasters, learn body and ground reference awareness as you fall with your jumpmasters next to you.
Jump 4 - One Jumpmaster
You learn basic control through minor turns and forward flight, guided by one jumpmaster.
Jump 5 - One Jumpmaster
This level continues instruction with more precise turns and forward movement, again one jumpmaster. At this time you also spotting (directing the plane to the exit point).
Jump 6 - One Jumpmaster
You learn more advanced maneouvers, including loops and recovery from planned unstable body positions, again with one jumpmaster.
Jump 7 - One Jumpmaster
One jumpmaster watches as you "solo" and demonstrate your skills. Please note that video is mandatory on this level.
Jump 8 - Solo!
Graduation Skydive. Hop-N-Pop. Jump solo your first time!

Scuba diving is relatively sedate

Paul in VT