pilot fish
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Dragon2115:Sorry if you think this might be rude but the impression I keep getting from your posts is that you do indeed feel that dive ops should be obligated to protect people from themselves. And I have to thoroughly disagree with that. Anybody that was trained properly (and was paying attention in class) learned what the recommended limits for each certification level are and what the risks for exceeding them are. If a person decides to exceed those limits then it is their own choice (as it should be) and the consequences are their own responsibility (also as it should be). The only reason U.S. dive ops would deny a diver anything is because of the liability risk that could finacially ruin them when the next of kin decides it's time to cash in on their relatives misfortune. Thank god the rest of the world doesn't operate with this same mindset or just like here in the U.S. we'd be having to provide DNA samples and drug test results just to ride a friggin go-kart there as well.
Consider this for a moment. What do you think the responsibility should be for dive ops in Bonaire that offer unlimited shore diving packages? After all, they're providing you with the vehicle to get to the dive sites, the tanks to dive with (i.e the method and the means), and requiring absolutely no supervision what so ever. Basically they ask for your c-card when you first get there, go out for one shallow check-out dive, and then they turn you loose to do whatever you feel like doing. There is nothing to stop an OW diver with five dives from going to 140 fsw if they wanted to. The Hilma Hooker is a wreck that can be reached right from shore and there's nothing to stop an unqualified diver from attempting to penetrate the wreck. Should the dive op be held responsible should someone get bent or die there? If your answer is that it's the divers responsibility, then why shouldn't that apply elsewhere in the world?
The basic problem I see is that the mindset in the U.S. (due to safety nut nerf-worlders) has gone from one of fierce independence and personal responsibility, to one of, I'm too stupid to think for myself so someone else has to do it for me. And if I do make a mistake and get hurt, it's someone else's fault and they should have to pay for my mistake.
In my training it was stressed that we were independant divers and that we were responsible for thinking for ourselves and making our own decisions. Remember the part about anybody being able to call the dive for any reason? If a person isn't ready to do that then imo they aren't ready to be an OW diver at all and should be held at the lower level scuba diver rating (and limited to diving with an instructor) until they can show proficiency and the ability to think for themselves.
Sorry if I seem a little strong on this topic but it's one of the things that gets me very torqued up these days. This country is in serious need of major Tort Law reform.
Thought for the day:
The human race is the only species on the planet in which the stupid not only survive, but thrive and reproduce in ever greater numbers.
In no way did I think your post was rude. You stated your opinion, which is valid. What you say has merit but it is a shade different than what I suggested. The dive op should "advise" a diver about a certain site that is CLEARLY beyound their expereience level, i.e. 130 ft dive after OW cert with a total of 5 or 10 dives as an example.
In your other example, which I think is different than touting a particular site and carrying divers out to that site, when you agree to shore dive you know full well you are on your own. If the shore dives you are attempting are all advance, deep sites, with strong current, then the Dive Op shoud advise you that it might not be a good idea for you to do those dives.
While I don't want agencies looking up my BC on every dive, I think Dive Ops should be in an advisary capacity, as they some times are, and not allow clearly unqualified diveres to do certain sites, which is the case with some reputable dive ops. Safe, fun diving, not dangerous diving.