Blue Hole Hit
- Thread starter pilot fish
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ScubaBabe22
Guest
EEEEEKS! I get cold in 82 degrees...I'd like to try my version of "through the ice diving" in the lakes around me, but my Dad has said I would need more expierence! I think it would be neat to see the different marine life and artifacts!
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pants!:
74 degrees! Wow ... some of the swimming pools around here are barely that warm ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Kriterian
Guest
pilot fish:
I think what he meant is the fact that "PADI 5 star resort" does not mean they were given that rating by an unbiased dive rating system like they do for hotels and restaraunts. It simply means they agreed to pay PADI a certain amount, display the right marketing stuff etc.
Of course that is no excuse for not showing a little more caution on an advanced dive like that, I agree with you completely on that one.
pete340
Contributor
jbliesath:
I recently did an "advanced" dive charter in Hawaii. The requirement was AOW and have been diving within the past six months, or 20 dives and have been diving with that dive operator recently. The first dive was a gradual descent along the bottom, following a lava ridge. Several of us were diving Nitrox, so we went as a group and limited our depth to 110'. The rest were mostly dive instructors, so they went all the way to 130'. Back on the boat afterwards, one person from the other group (not a dive instructor) was telling her story about running out of air during her safety stop; she had run low at depth, buddied with the dive guide for the ascent, and shared air at the stop. She explained that she "must have been really narced" to not notice how fast she was using air. While she was filling out her logbook I came up with a better explanation: she had made seventeen dives. She had no business diving that deep.
I did the Blue Hole on post-OW dive #7. I hit 132' and only held up because my buddy noticed he was narced. The other 10 divers and 2 divemasters were in the neighborhood of 150'. One of the other divers was doing his FIRST post-OW dive. His girlfriend wasn't allowed to go because she had only gotten her Scuba Diver rating, not the full OW. She was allowed to go on the subsequent dives which were 106' and 78'.
I didn't die, I didn't run out of air, but I did get narc'd and I haven't been that deep since. At this point I realize I was mostly lucky and thankfully nothing really went wrong. I had no business being on that dive and didn't even know enough to realize it.
The operators that are not in the US aren't under the same pressure from INSURANCE companies to restrict access to riskier dives. As a US dive operator, I'll have a much easier time defending myself in case of litigation if I show a reasonable effort to ascertain that a diver is competent to perform the dive. Since I can't take everyone on a shakedown dive, the only tools I have are C-cards and logbooks, and logbooks can be faked. It's sad, but that's reality. I'm not willing to risk my boat and my business by throwing my hands in the air and saying, "hey, if they want to hurt themselves, go right ahead!"
I get a little tired of the tug of war between the people that will take responsibility for their actions, and those who defend poor judgement by saying that someone else should be paying more attention. Since on my boat I don't know which one you are, I have to err in favor of myself and make sure I have something tangible that says you SHOULD know better than to do something dangerous. I'd rather just throw you in the water and let you dive, but I can't do that because even if YOU think you're responsible for you own actions, your next of kin might not feel the same way. Am I paranoid? Probably, but I have to be.
<since I'm ranting anyway>
The biggest problem for me is that no C-card from OW on up to whatever actually mean a thing. It means someone sent in a piece of paper on your behalf that said you could do something. I've seen spectacular new divers and horrible instructors. I think that once you actually get to dive as an independent diver, you should really be all the way through a rescue equivalent. By the time any diver has gone through to that level of training, they have a pretty good idea where they stand as far as skills go and have enough experience to have a healthy respect for the underwater environment.
I don't advocate government regulation of diving activities, but I would like for the cards to have some meaning. I've said before (and I got slaughtered for it) that I think that your instructor shouldn't be the one to issue the card. Let an independent examiner determine what a diver can and can't do. It takes the pressure off the instructor to pass students and puts the emphasis back on teaching.
Umm.... yeah. I so was just going to post my Blue Hole experience and leave it at that... oops.
Rachel
I didn't die, I didn't run out of air, but I did get narc'd and I haven't been that deep since. At this point I realize I was mostly lucky and thankfully nothing really went wrong. I had no business being on that dive and didn't even know enough to realize it.
The operators that are not in the US aren't under the same pressure from INSURANCE companies to restrict access to riskier dives. As a US dive operator, I'll have a much easier time defending myself in case of litigation if I show a reasonable effort to ascertain that a diver is competent to perform the dive. Since I can't take everyone on a shakedown dive, the only tools I have are C-cards and logbooks, and logbooks can be faked. It's sad, but that's reality. I'm not willing to risk my boat and my business by throwing my hands in the air and saying, "hey, if they want to hurt themselves, go right ahead!"
I get a little tired of the tug of war between the people that will take responsibility for their actions, and those who defend poor judgement by saying that someone else should be paying more attention. Since on my boat I don't know which one you are, I have to err in favor of myself and make sure I have something tangible that says you SHOULD know better than to do something dangerous. I'd rather just throw you in the water and let you dive, but I can't do that because even if YOU think you're responsible for you own actions, your next of kin might not feel the same way. Am I paranoid? Probably, but I have to be.
<since I'm ranting anyway>
The biggest problem for me is that no C-card from OW on up to whatever actually mean a thing. It means someone sent in a piece of paper on your behalf that said you could do something. I've seen spectacular new divers and horrible instructors. I think that once you actually get to dive as an independent diver, you should really be all the way through a rescue equivalent. By the time any diver has gone through to that level of training, they have a pretty good idea where they stand as far as skills go and have enough experience to have a healthy respect for the underwater environment.
I don't advocate government regulation of diving activities, but I would like for the cards to have some meaning. I've said before (and I got slaughtered for it) that I think that your instructor shouldn't be the one to issue the card. Let an independent examiner determine what a diver can and can't do. It takes the pressure off the instructor to pass students and puts the emphasis back on teaching.
Umm.... yeah. I so was just going to post my Blue Hole experience and leave it at that... oops.
Rachel
I took my AOW at about 15 dives because I was going on a cruise and planned to dive Cozumel. From all the SB reading I had done, it seemed that just about every dive (at least the first one) was to 80 feet or so. I wanted further training in deep diving before going there. Considering how many people go to the Caribbean right after OW with no further dives or even complete OW there I think OW should be changed a bit. Either OW should be extended some to include deep dive training or there should be part one and part 2. AOW then could be set for 50 dives or so and include things like wreck diving, Nitrox etc.....
I think that AOW as it is now doesn't mean much except "part 2" of OW. The number of dives you have is important because you do tend to improve with time but I think more important is the types of diving you have done. I also think that just saying a dive is an "advanced dive" is not enough information for many people. If I were to describe Flower Gardens now that I have been there I would describe it like this: Conditions can go from no current to very strong current during a dive and may even change directions. The surface can go from flat to 3-4 seas during a dive. You may have to come up the current line UNDER the boat with 3-4 ft seas and the boat bouncing up and down. You may find holding your safety stop near impossible on the current line due to sudden depth changes of several feet. If you have any qualms about calling a dive you probably shouldn't dive here. This is what it was like when I was there a couple weeks ago. This description would give me enough information to decide if I was ready or not. Just my thoughts....
Judy
I think that AOW as it is now doesn't mean much except "part 2" of OW. The number of dives you have is important because you do tend to improve with time but I think more important is the types of diving you have done. I also think that just saying a dive is an "advanced dive" is not enough information for many people. If I were to describe Flower Gardens now that I have been there I would describe it like this: Conditions can go from no current to very strong current during a dive and may even change directions. The surface can go from flat to 3-4 seas during a dive. You may have to come up the current line UNDER the boat with 3-4 ft seas and the boat bouncing up and down. You may find holding your safety stop near impossible on the current line due to sudden depth changes of several feet. If you have any qualms about calling a dive you probably shouldn't dive here. This is what it was like when I was there a couple weeks ago. This description would give me enough information to decide if I was ready or not. Just my thoughts....
Judy
OP
pilot fish
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Kriterian:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, now I understand what that PADI stuff means. I thought it meant a reputable outfit that practiced safe diving?
circusoflife
Contributor
dscheck:
Agree on the seatbelt and the motorcycle. As long as you have insurance...
as for the cell phone while driving...which inattentive driver do I want to ram into again? Cell phones should be banned while driving frankly. Not everyone has the same mental capacity to talk and drive. You risk someone else. The other two - you risk only yourself (Besides your family)
I'd reverse the law on the other two...but let's get a national health insurance system first.
ShakaZulu
Contributor
What is the difference between a diver with 30 dives to 60ft, and one with 500 dives to 60 ft. None in my opinion, since neither has any deep dive experience. On deeper dives you have to deal with the effects of narcosis. For recreational diving, air planning is not really a factor to 130ft (if nothing goes wrong), since you will run out of bottom time before you are out of air. So, without knowing her profile, there is no need to blame any organization or certification. I often read on this board how the number of dives would have made him/her a more experienced diver. Nope, experience comes from the number of different types of dives you do, deep, deco, wreck, cave etc. The more we educate ourselfs, the better divers we become, even taking the step from OW to AOW. In the AOW course, you do a deep dive where the effects of narcosis is demonstrated.
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