Blowing off Steam

[CathyE]

People can call me a lady diver if they wish. It means of course that they don't know me.
I grew up in a family where there was only one girl and several boys for five generations. I have been a military spouse for 30 years and my work field was IT. Believe me, I can out guy anyone.
Any offers of help are however welcome, accepted if needed, politely declined if not.
I don't think I ever met a man who didn't understand when to back off. I say 'thank you' if someone holds a door open for me and I hold the door for anyone else coming through.

 

[uncfnp]

I remember in the '70s my mom trying to instill in me the idea of gender equality, and part of the message was that we men should no longer go out of our way to hold a door open for a lady, for example. I believe the pendulum has swung back, and we're now expected to do just that. When I moved from California to the South, I definitely detected an increased expectation of this sort of minor chivalry by males toward females. But I don't believe the pendulum has swung so far back that "lady _________ (traditionally male role)" should be the norm. It goes both ways, too. I wouldn't want to be called a "male nurse" (if I were a nurse).

I think part of the problem is highlighted, unintentional, by Sam...

It was thought by most that a female could not and would not ever meet the qualifications.. Then 100 pounds of water woman Dottie Frazer signed up and became the worlds first female Underwater Instructor (SCUBA was not in common usage ) in 1956

In order to be accepted “in a man’s world” we had to meet men’s standards, often physical but also behavioral. This expectation, in my opinion, lead to women to devalue their uniqueness and too readily accept men’s standards as their own. Hence to be equal we had to be the same.

As for a male nurse, they are still paid more for the same work so I apologize if I am less than sympathetic to their plight.

 

[Laurie S.]

I've never been called a lady diver (wouldn't like it, if it happened, btw), but anyone who wants to haul my tanks will get a heartfelt thank you from me.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

Many years ago, I grew up in West Texas (the compass direction, not the city) where I was raised to open doors for women among many other respectful gestures towards the opposite sex. It is ingrained in who I am and is as automatic as breathing. I happily help my wife with her gear along with anyone else who appears to be struggling. Swinging on a BCD with tank attached on dry land sucks no matter who you are. A twisted strap makes it worse. An Octo tangled up in the mix...ugh. Offers to help do not mean you CANT do it, just that it is easier with a little help. I love it when some one lifts my tank while I'm getting my BCD on. I'm 6"1, 230#, and in decent shape.

I'm almost 50, happily married, and have two beautiful daughters that are of the age where most boys, and some men, will look twice. I expect that the men in their lives will treat them with the same respect and courtesy that I was raised with. Sometimes help is just a little help to make your day better. Not because of your vagina, or geriatric status, or anything else, just because most people and most divers I have met are nice, share a common interest, and are friendly people at heart.

A friend paid the coffee bill for the CAR (not the specific person) behind him at a drive through. He got a call so he pulled over at the end of the lot and was on the phone with his window down when the lady drove by and yelled, "I'm Married". Like me, he is older, married, with kids and I'm 100% confident he didn't even realize she was female when he paid for her coffee. No good deed....

Some men are assholes, some women are assholes, that's just a fact of life and one of the lessons I taught my children growing up...assholes are everywhere. Most people are not and help is just that...help. Coping a feel under the auspices of help, on the other hand, justifies the nuclear option.

I'll still help (unless you're an Aggie)
Jay

 

[RyanT]

Many years ago, I grew up in West Texas (the compass direction, not the city) where I was raised to open doors for women among many other respectful gestures towards the opposite sex. It is ingrained in who I am and is as automatic as breathing. I happily help my wife with her gear along with anyone else who appears to be struggling. Swinging on a BCD with tank attached on dry land sucks no matter who you are. A twisted strap makes it worse. An Octo tangled up in the mix...ugh. Offers to help do not mean you CANT do it, just that it is easier with a little help. I love it when some one lifts my tank while I'm getting my BCD on. I'm 6"1, 230#, and in decent shape.

I want to print this out and post it on my office door. Whether you're diving or doing anything else in life...this!!!!

Thanks Jay!

 

[chillyinCanada]

Some guys don’t know how to take a polite and firm no for an answer. That’s when you have to get nasty. Some only understand nasty.

Telling a woman “not to make a scene or not make an enemy” is just what some of the young women I encounter do NOT need. They need the opposite. They’re too afraid of hurting someone’s feelings that it’s gotten them in trouble.

I understand what you are saying (better than you know) but divers are divers are divers and Male or female, there's just no reason to go out of your way to be snarky. Who knows, maybe that's going to be the person who gives you a hand underwater when you really DO need it.

To my mind, we shouldn't automatically assume it's misogyny or @$$hole-ness. Some folk are just very helpful and perhaps hard of hearing.

 

[Tom_Ivan]

Are you lagging behind the group when you have these offers of help?

If I'm going diving (or doing any activity for that matter) I'm usually enthusiastic about getting going. As a result I'll try to help anyone who is being slower than the rest. This is usually woman or elderly. I don't think I'm being sexist or anything if I single out these people and offer to help. Sure they might be able to carry all the load on their own, but why make everyone else wait while they prove their equality by lugging it all themselves?

 

[EvaFin]

Thank-you for all the great responses and I do understand the point better to help than not (though of course people are protective about their gear and you don't want to intrude on a specialised set-up). That's really true and diving is a co-operative pastime. I imagine there are a lot of women out there who know the distinction though of when they're being condescended to and when it's a genuine offer of help.

It's true of course that there are difference in physiology and (on a loose population level) differences in strength. This was an instance of a bad apple among many, it was sad though that they used my gender specifically and reminded me of the other sexist treatment I've experienced during diving.

Thanks so much aquacat8, that article (Sexism: Alive and well in scuba diving | DIVER magazine) is really helpful.

In retrospect I regret slagging off the term lady diver, although it might be useful to see if changed to woman/female diver, as in doing so I inadvertently ignored/put aside all the awesome woman who have worked so hard to make sure there is a place for women in diving.

 

[aquacat8]

It’s all just compensatory facade anyway, the poor guys are just jealous of our air consumption. ;-)

 

[Kharon]

Many years ago, I grew up in West Texas (the compass direction, not the city) where I was raised to open doors for women among many other respectful gestures towards the opposite sex. It is ingrained in who I am and is as automatic as breathing.

Me too. These days it's evolved, for me, into holding the door for anyone (male, female, old, young) heading for the same door. It's simply polite. I think that there is currently a derth of politness, consideration, respect, etc. As a 60's & 70's "child" I subscribe to the "It's got to start somewhere" and it certainly does no harm.

Diving is different. I assume that no one wants me to touch their gear (do unto others). If they want help, they'll ask. If they are struggling, I'll ask. Again, male, female, old, young - no difference.

Note: almost all guys I hold the door for say thank you, many women do not. I'm 71 and my days of "hitting" on women are so far behind me I remember doing it, but I can't remember why.