Blowing off Steam

[Storker]

is anyone else really sick of being called a 'lady diver' instead of a diver?

Not a woman, so I don't have that issue. If it - as I get the impression - comes out as condescending, eff them. You could consider answering something along the lines of "too bad I don't see any gentleman divers around here,then".

Even without any intention of sexism, an honest offer to help might get easily be seen as sexist. I like to think that I regard my diving mates as regular mates no matter the gender, so if I see someone struggling with lugging gear, kitting up, kitting down or whatever, I like to offer help regardless of whether that's a man or a women. Now since, on average, women are smaller and less muscular than men, I'm probably offering help more often to female diving mates than to male diving mates. I understand that that could be taken as sexist even if it isn't intended that way.

The most common conversations I hear when I go diving are (#1 is often initiated by me):

1. "Hey, can you help me with...?" "Sure!"
2. "You need any help with that?" "Yeah, if you could just..."
3. "You need any help with that?" "No thanks, I'm fine." "Good!"

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I just watched the game show, To Tell the Truth. They had 2 women on who were twins who work for NASA. When they introduced themselves, they said, " ... and we are proud to be Latina engineers!" My first thought was why can't they just call themselves engineers?

The next game show I watched, the contestant introduced herself as a "proud military wife." In the past, women married to military men considered themselves wives and mothers the same as women married to doctors, accountants, salesmen, etc.

Our society seems to feel a greater need to be special or show how inclusive we are based upon gender, race, sexual orientation, etc., which ironically, seems to create a greater divide.

Pride is gender neutral. I opened the door at a YMCA for a woman carrying a Bonsai tree as a Christmas gift. She replied, "What? You don't think I could do that myself?" Turned out she was an aerobics instructor and the ensuing argument found us dating.

My buddy, a GUE instructor, was climbing a hill in his doubles. I was wearing street clothes and put my hand under his tanks to take some weight off. He said, "Trace, a couple years ago I would have kicked your @$$ for helping me. Now, I'll just say, 'Thanks, buddy.'"

The most macho male diver of them all, Mike Nelson, played by Lloyd Bridges in Sea Hunt had Zale Parry as an instructor. Zale is a woman.

 

[Kharon]

Not a woman but I'm old (71). No one tries to feel me up but way too many just jump in and "help". They will grab my tank/BC as I'm putting it on (throwing me off balance), or try to pull my fin off at the boat ladder (pulling me under). Here's a hint to all you "helpful" a$$hat$ - if someone needs or wants help they will ask for it. If they don't, mind your own business.

With all the scandelous news about sexual misconduct you would think this kind of behavior directed toward attractive women would cease. I'm embarrassed to be a man.

 

[Sam Miller III]

The worlds first, most demanding and certainly the most prestigious Underwater (SCUBA) training program was developed in 1954 by Los Angeles County .aka LA County Underwater Instructor program'
Its entrance requirements were extremely difficult and graduating from the program was even more difficult aka many apply- few are accepted - even fewer graduate- but they are divers who became instructors not just one who dive and just instruct- there is a huge difference !

It was thought by most that a female could not and would not ever meet the qualifications.. Then 100 pounds of water woman Dottie Frazer signed up and became the worlds first female Underwater Instructor (SCUBA was not in common usage ) in 1956

A year later, 1957 Barbara Allen became the second female Underwater Instructor

The next year, 1958 was Azalea Bivens aka Zale Parry, (wife of Parry Bivens) of Sea Hunt fame was the third female Underwater Instructor

Followed by Lynn Chase in 1960 as the fourth female Underwater Instructor etc etc

Dottie just turned 96 a week ago, the remaining are all in their 80s in good health and still active in the mature (antique? - ancient ?) SoCal diving community. We are all are in frequent contact and visit often

There is absolutely no distinction as to gender - we are all members of a very exclusive tribe.who have successfully completed the equalizer called LA CO UW Association UICC.

Total equality

SDM
gioiog ole @Ducky diver

 

[KristenK]

I was shore diving and fell over because of a loose stone and a strong wave and a guy started going on about how I couldn't take the weight because of being a woman and I wanted to sock him. .

I always appreciate an offer of help diving or anywhere else in life...and I don't automatically assume it's because I'm a woman. Likewise I try to make offers of assistance to others. It's the polite and kind thing to do.

HOWEVER...it sounds like he was berating you because of your gender. That is unacceptable. Good for you for not slugging him with your tank. (Oops, I'm sorry I knocked that into your face...it's just SOOOO heavy and I'm just a girl.)

I was promoted to an executive position a few years ago and had a man come up to me and say, "I want you to know that I can never take you seriously in a position of leadership because you're a girl." I was stunned! After a couple seconds of regaining my composure I said, "That's unfortunate, because I just became your boss."

Like so many things in life, it's just a few bad apples that cause so much drama. I'm blessed because I'm surrounded by men, professionally and personally, who are amazing human beings.

 

[Storker]

(Oops, I'm sorry I knocked that into your face...it's just SOOOO heavy and I'm just a girl.

 

[uncfnp]

Its a tough call. My generation has no true understanding of the things our mom’s and grandmothers endured and sacrificed to make things better for us. So too for the next generation and generations to come.

And as with many social changes the pendulum tends to swing too far astray until a balance is reached. If it ever does.

Please feel free to call me a lady diver. I am proud of my gender and our accomplishments. And I acknowledge the gender differences and embrace our unique strengths. Our goal should not to be just like men, which we aren’t, but to value and respect each other as the individuals we are.

But as for a**holes, now those are gender neutral (suitable for, applicable to, or common to both male and female genders).

 

[outofofficebrb]

HOWEVER...it sounds like he was berating you because of your gender. That is unacceptable. Good for you for not slugging him with your tank. (Oops, I'm sorry I knocked that into your face...it's just SOOOO heavy and I'm just a girl.)

I was promoted to an executive position a few years ago and had a man come up to me and say, "I want you to know that I can never take you seriously in a position of leadership because you're a girl." I was stunned! After a couple seconds of regaining my composure I said, "That's unfortunate, because I just became your boss."

Like so many things in life, it's just a few bad apples that cause so much drama. I'm blessed because I'm surrounded by men, professionally and personally, who are amazing human beings.

Brilliant plan on the tank.

Nice mic drop on your new employee.

 

[aquacat8]

Although some women are incredibly strong, there is truly a strength difference between most women and most men. If women ruled the world a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood would be a 3 x 6’ and so forth. A smart petite woman (who has had back problems in the past) will accept help or devise strategies for carrying dangerously heavy things, and will re-design things and carefully choose gear that matches her strength.

Of course there is sexism in the diving world, just as there is sexism elsewhere: Jill Hienerth wrote a wonderful article about it, after researching here among other places, that I wish everyone would read Sexism: Alive and well in scuba diving | DIVER magazine

It sounds like the OP was subjected to condescension, not chivalry. Chivalry is sexy, helpful, tactful, and very welcome. Condescension is not. We really can tell the difference.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
And as with many social changes the pendulum tends to swing too far astray until a balance is reached. If it ever does. . . .

I remember in the '70s my mom trying to instill in me the idea of gender equality, and part of the message was that we men should no longer go out of our way to hold a door open for a lady, for example. I believe the pendulum has swung back, and we're now expected to do just that. When I moved from California to the South, I definitely detected an increased expectation of this sort of minor chivalry by males toward females. But I don't believe the pendulum has swung so far back that "lady _________ (traditionally male role)" should be the norm. It goes both ways, too. I wouldn't want to be called a "male nurse" (if I were a nurse).