Been out of the photo scene for a while - appears that prices have gotten worse...

[dhaas]

How do I explain this to people like bruelhlt...........

Oh yeah, call them as I see 'em as you say?

Here you go: You don't know the slightest of what you're talking about If you're so smart BUILD one and then post photos taken with your home built device.

I HAVE a friend who's a trained commercial diver and been making his own housings (even for the newest Canon SLRs) for decades. No he doesn't have every button or control nor TTL flash circuitry (he does well on manual flash after diving for 40+ years like myself) but he also likes making things. So for him it's as much hobby as something to use.......

UW photography is so small worldwide as to be the bacteria on a fly on an elephant on the African continent on the earth!!!!!!! That's how miniscule in photography we are......We are darn lucky to have anyone entering the business and provide the tools to take beautiful UW images easier than ever......

I've seen the basic GoPro housing sell for $39.95 in Best Buy. Crappy dome port that yields totally out of focus images unless you get the NEW Dive Housing with a flat port or spend more money to retrofit with an aftermarket flat port.

As muzikbiz22 says you'll also end up spending an average of $300 or WAY more to make this thing work.

I have tons of customers who bought one to strap on their SLR rig "to shoot a little HD video". No one has ever come close to producing anything remotely near what GoPro shows on their web site (mostly above water, splash shots, beautiful late afternoon light, shot and edited by marketing company,etc.) plus the limited adjustments of the camera.

Please send me links ot anything other than all blue or green shaky footage (usually mostly OOF, out of focus) shot by an actual consumer diver.......I'd love to see it.

My personal feeling is I could outshoot HD video of anyone with a $200.00 Canon HD point and shoot in Ikelite's ULTRAcompact housing and a simple UR Pro filter. BECAUSE the camera is sooooooo much better to start with.....

As far as stills taken off a GoPro go try and print one even to 4X6 or bigger.........It blows..........

So if you want to talk about throwing money $$$$$ away and not getting anything recognizable in focus, with color, etc. then please please please post something to prove you know what you're talking about

Signed,

Nice old time diver who knows what he's talking about and is usually a nice guy you'd want to go diving with!

Until someone starts talking smack

David Haas
www.haasimages.com

 

[Larry C]

But David, how do you REALLY feel about people who whine about the price of UW eqp't???

How do I explain this to people like bruelhlt...........
Here you go: You don't know the slightest of what you're talking about If you're so smart BUILD one and then post photos taken with your home built device.
UW photography is so small worldwide as to be the bacteria on a fly on an elephant on the African continent on the earth!!!!!!! That's how miniscule in photography we are......We are darn lucky to have anyone entering the business and provide the tools to take beautiful UW images easier than ever......
I've seen the basic GoPro housing sell for $39.95 in Best Buy. Crappy dome port that yields totally out of focus images unless you get the NEW Dive Housing with a flat port or spend more money to retrofit with an aftermarket flat port.
My personal feeling is I could outshoot HD video of anyone with a $200.00 Canon HD point and shoot in Ikelite's ULTRAcompact housing and a simple UR Pro filter. BECAUSE the camera is sooooooo much better to start with.....
As far as stills taken off a GoPro go try and print one even to 4X6 or bigger.........It blows..........
So if you want to talk about throwing money $$$$$ away and not getting anything recognizable in focus, with color, etc. then please please please post something to prove you know what you're talking about

 

[dhaas]

Amigos,

Sorry for the rant, but I'm tired of people who think dive industry products should be FREE or dirt cheap...........

If it's so easy everyone would be doing it versus companies trying to stay in business in a small industry.

YMMV

David Haas
www.haasimages.com

 

[bruehlt]

I've obviously touched a nerve, as expected. in regards to those insulting me about not knowing anything, I'm an electrical engineer, based in an industry that designs, prototypes, and builds heavy machinery. In my position, I've worked with some world class machine shops that had some of the best in class EDM and CNC machines out there. As I stated earlier, when you produce a large run of parts on the machine, unit cost drops. Single batch production runs are expensive - which means as dime of you have suggested , if I were to attempt to build my own the cost would be very expensive. That should not be the case for companies such as those mentioned above. And to clarify the comment made earlier - nowhere did istate that "things should be free." I believe that the scuba industry as a whole is going to be in for arough ride in the coming years. People's discretionary income is shrinking, meaning less folks that will pay, not only to dive, but to buy all of the toys that go along with it (such as $3000 camera housings).

 

[dhaas]

bruehlt,

No personal attack was intended except rebutting your insinuation many in the dive industry are "ripping people off". I don't nor have dive industry friends driving expensive cars, living in huge mansions, etc. Just working folks who love diving and UW photography........

Your industry likely sells either high volume lower cost goods or lower volume but high cost units.

You won't find numbers published on how many SLR housings are sold, flashes sold, etc. as most are private companies.

Since you believe Ikelite being the most cost effective solution for many (and as I've posted, I'm a dealer, actual user of Ikelite gear, owned a dive shop years ago, etc.) you should read their history right on their web site to see how "big" they are.....

This year they're celebrating their 50th anniversary in the UW business and there aren't that many around from that era. A small group of dedicated people........

The dive industry is shrinking but not just from less discretionary income.

I have my opinions why but doesn't everyone on web forums?

Here's a few tidbits....

* The average sport diver still participating (at least on my trips) is 40 - 85 years old (!!!!!!!!) So for many diving is becoming a bit more money unless you live near good local diving or if inland and don't travel dive your local pond, lake, etc.

* UW Photography was SAVED by digital.........The prices of very good cameras has continually been less each year but for UW use their is practically no volume worldwide for the UW housings, strobes, etc.........So there is no "economy of scale" to be used in making something like a SLR housing as cheap as a GoPro. An SLR housing may 32+ or more controls in it, circuitry and more....

I did not intend to insult you, but as you have opinions on UW photography I find when people make good choices and NOT just shopping price they can enjoy the activity at whatever price level for many years without starving or losing their house.

I actually hope you DO find a system from the simplest to whatever complexity and ENJOY getting back into diving and especially UW photography. I marvel every day I can push a button and share a vision of the underwater world with so many

There are lots of folks on here willing to help you, too.............

Again, just one guy's lowly opinion

David Haas
www.haasimages.com

 

[calicant]

I'm not sure I want to look at a price list for the underwater gear we need to order when our camera arrives. I imagine nothing will shock me as much as the price of flights to Asia in peak periods.

 

[alcina]

I love these threads

I would love to not have to look at dropping another several thousand dollars on a new housing. That is one of the main reasons why I haven't changed camera systems in YEARS - mine works fine and I don't really need to and the cost is too prohibitive for a mere want.

But I have zero problem with a company deciding to sell their products for their chosen prices. They are in business to make money. If their costs are low and they can sell high? Awesome for them!! I personally don't think this is the case with underwater housings, but even if it is, that's fine. I cannot run another person's business and it's arrogant and ignorant to think I can. When one runs a business, one sets prices to stay in business, make a profit, enjoy a lifestyle etc etc - if enough consumers don't think the price is reasonable, they won't buy your product and you can either change or die.

Don't like the prices, fine, have a bit of a whinge - that's almost a given reaction No one is forcing anyone to buy anything and this is truly a want hobby, not a need hobby!

 

[calicant]

If the housing costs several thousand dollars, I would love to have your camera.

 

[Kevster]

I think the price of underwater camera gear is very reasonable, especially with the new m4/3 systems. Excellent image/video quality in small compact housings.

The Nauticam housing for the new Olympus EMD5 (or whatever its called) costs $1350!!!! That is excellent value, for a quality housing.

The m4/3 systems offer excellent value for money. Image quality is great and suitable for most casual users. Let the pros spend the big cash. The options for the casual user have never been better IMHO.

 

[PHIL RUDIN]

It has been fun watching this thread from the sidelines, but I would agree with Kevster. Like David I shoot for publication and my system is now the Olympus OM-D E-M5 with 8mm fisheye, 7-14 zoom, 12mm, 45 macro and a few more lenses I use more out of the water than in the water. Camera body $1000.00, housing $1350.00 and three ports at a total of under $1300.00.

Back in the good old days early 1990's I had two Nikonos RS bodies at $2750.00 each and about $10,000.00 in lenses, one 18mm was over $3500.00. Plus the cost of film and processing of around !500.00 to $2000.00 a year. Image quality with my new much less expensive equipment is also much better than with the old film cameras in most respects.

Being in the biz, I know for a fact that the margins on most equipment do not exceed 25% and some are only about 10%. As one who sees the cup half full I have seen my local area underwater photography business expend to about five times the business flooe space in the last five or six years which leads me to conclude that business is growing not falling off.

Underwater photography is not cheap but no more so than golf, fishing, paintball or other equipment intensive sports.

I hope this won't get David upset again because I think his head was about to explode, only kidding David is a well respected member of the underwater photography community and knows what he is talking about.

Phil Rudin