Be careful in Bonaire (Burglaries)

[Mike]

And you find it "relaxing" to have a shotgun stuck in your face every night? .

I found it extremely relaxing since they were hired to to protect myself, my family and my valuables. The island isn't without crime, so I found it extremely relaxing to see the resort I chose to spend my money with was using some it to ensure the safety of it's guests. Perhaps some resorts on Bonaire might want to look into this instead of using the 'ignore' method which has resulted in the escalation of the crime to the point of the original poster starting this thread. I see nothing wrong with a resort acknowledging the need for security and putting in place the level of security they believe is needed. This is responsible management.

You should acknoledge that right now on Bonaire the responsible level of security has risen to security cameras and the like. Just a month ago the level needed was believed to be below that. This is an escalation of security as a result of the percieved threat. Personally I believe it is nothing but window dressing or lip stick on a pig. But only a month ago you all would have never even broached the subject of crime being at a level to even require that!

That's the single biggest issue anybody has with the Rah Rah clique - your insistent denial and deflection of the risk level. In the last 6 months it's gone from

A) Petty crime at dive sites - stealling of flip flops
B) Room invasions while tourists are sleeping there and thieves are rummaging through their belongings
C) Ransacking of rooms while tourists are away diving, with safes being pried open

6 months ago before B and C were occuring and being reported here you all might have had a leg to stand on with just suck it up and leave your valuables in the room safe where they belong, roll down the windows and enjoy the diving.

B and C are a game changer.

No, it's because it's unnecessary to have a gun. It might be more effective to shoot to kill any wannabe burglars making the attempt at stealing a T-shirt from someone's truck, but apparently they prefer to do it the hard way.

Again, let's not deflect what the topic is. It was not in regard to petty thievery at dive sites. It was about room invasions which is on a totally different scale of brazenness and danger.

Of course there's also less of a chance that way of an innocent tourist being caught in the crossfire between the armed guards and their shotguns and the murderous thugs with guns like you might find on other islands where criminals tend to be armed and violent..

Didn't notice any gun battles, was too busy enjoying the restfulness and solitude created by the lack of murderous thugs and criminals.

You could wear that Rolex you want to bring, right? At least in Bonaire, unlike other places, no one will mug you or cut your hand off to get at it.

Why bother going then? What kind of relaxing vacation could you possibly have without the Rolex, diamond ring, and cell phones?.

As noted, too late, already booked and air line tickets for 4 paid for.

Sorry, but we who have been to Bonaire and can appreciate the risks, think it silly that others feel a shotgun in the face every night is so much more relaxing than safe Bonaire where you dive at your own pace and can enjoy walking around outside at night without fearing for your life or having guns pointed at you. .

Again, you and the rest of the Rah Rah clique are great at deflecting the issue. You can go back and re-read what you are quoting, you're old enough and intelligent enough.

Please don't use disposable batteries, or if you do, please don't leave them on the island.

I plan on leaving as large a carbon foot print on the face of this planet as possible.

 

[pilot fish]

Mfinley, they are pretending not to get it and using distraction to change the focus so that others will not get it.

 

[DandyDon]

Don - I think that is what will end up happening, any places to start for the insurance. I'm guessing my homeowner's policy is not going to cover them. Is it a separate trip insurance?

Homeowner's policies generally have some built-in coverages, or you can discuss a homeowner's rider with your agent, limits, deductibles, exclusions, costs, will claims affect your homeowner's policy, etc.

I use State Farm's Personal Articles Policy aka "inland marine" and do searches on SB for both names as I discovered the existence of it mentioned by the latter name, with a few references - all good. You set the per item limits to extent, no deductibles, few exclusions altho they stopped covering cell phones understandably, costs seem reasonable, claims will not affect your homeowner's policy. I really don't see any point in owning a dive camera without it. My laptop got zapped by a thunderstorm at home early one morning and while waiting to talk to my agent, I discussed that here on SB on Whine forum I think. A homeowners claims agent assured me that power surges are pretty generally excluded (I have heard of exceptions but not recently?), but then a couple of hours later after speaking with my agent I posted that they were not excluded on my PAP. No further comments from the other poster. As it turned out, I had my laptop excessively over insured, but their policy was to replace it or pay it. Easiest insurance claim I have ever made and I had a check in full a week later. When I picked up my replacement laptop, far better with the same money, I phoned my agent from the store to get it covered before I left as I had other stops to make and I wanted to leave it in the pickup - no trunk available.

It certainly can't hurt to check your homeowner's policy. My $1,200 Farmers policy insures my personal property up to $365,250 that's "owned or used by an insured anywhere in the world." I don't see why my insurance wouldn't cover my dive gear, though there is an exception for jewelry and watches that limits coverage to $1,000 per item, $5,000 aggregate, which would probably be insufficient for the Rolex and diamond ring. The laptop has a $5,000 limit, more than enough for me.

Still, I use the Senn, Dunn policy available through DAN. It provides a year of coverage that includes flooding insurance. It's not cheap, but neither is recovering from a flooded housing.

https://www.h2oinsurance.com/program_details.asp

I don't think my homeowner's policy would cover a flooding since there are all sorts of limits on reimbursable water damage. In any case, I prefer the separate policy because I'd rather not make a claim on my homeowner's policy and make the rates go up unless I have to.

Trip insurance will also provide (limited) coverage for personal property and I sometimes buy a trip insurance policy too, especially if I'm traveling somewhere far away and exotic (Wakatobi in May, for instance), or to the Caribbean in hurricane season. J broke her ankle in Bonaire the year before last and the trip insurance covered all our out of pocket expenses and more (we got a check back for over $6K) - had we been robbed as well, TravelGuard really would have lost out since we only paid $150 or so for the policy. I love insurance - it's paid off much better than the blackjack table at the Divi casino

If you have DAN's Preferred dive accident, it provides "Medical Non-Dive Accident Coverage Occurring outside home country, $10,000 Lifetime Max, For eligible charges for treatment of non-diving accidents outside home country, $250 deductible" altho some mistake that to cover illnesses and other non-accident medical expenses, which it does not.

I have done a few comparisons between SF's PAP, DEPP, and DAN's gear insurance and each time came away thinking the last two really sucked in comparison. You might take a look.

I use TravelSafe.com for trip insurance as I found them best for my needs and how much I wanted to spend, but there are other good ones and many bad ones. My primary reason was for medical coverage accident or not, but there is airline's reduced luggage liabilities on international flights & porter handling out of my view, needed cancellation of all-or-nothing trip packages, interruptions & delays, up to $2,500 in Personal Effects each with some limitations one really needs to read closely, etc. This is really a good place to start when shopping for trip insurance as you can input your state, age, and trip cost to see a lonnnnng comparison of plans and premiums then narrow it down froom there: InsureMyTrip.com | Quote | Help

Exactly, that's why I was addressing the being careful part, comparing the need to be careful on Bonaire with the need to be careful on Roatan.

In fact, I'm going to be very broad here and suggest we all be careful everywhere. Is there a forum for that?

General Travel forum. As mentioned recently here, and thread was started there with a summary of good ideas from this one: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ge...protecting-yourself-crime-when-traveling.html

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Not my perception but OK. Seems like there are 3 or 4 threads separated out from the OP. Maybe I am confused, I really don't feel like going back to prove my perception or disprove yours. Really not that important to me. Either way this is not a thread for bashing Roatan or proclaiming it is safer than Bonaire. This thread is about Bonaire.

Just my opinion, diving on both sites sounds wonderful, 2 different types of diving but both sound wonderful to me. I haven't done a shore dive since I was certified, not that I wouldn't want to try it again, just haven't done it, always done boat diving. Like I said, I haven't been to Bonaire so I can't vouch for it's safety or the diving. I would like to go to Bonaire someday.

Not sure I am prepared to leave phones, laptops, rings, cameras, vehicle windows rolled down and request a second floor non-corner unit, leaving no cash in the room, bring a door wedge alarm, bring a locking gas cap, locking lugnuts and the list of suggestions goes on and on. I don't belive ALL the hype concerning these matters either. But then I am not foolish enough to belive Bonaire is a huggy bear, kissy faced utopia either.

While the thread contains wild unnecessary accusations from both sides if you read carefully and sort out the Bull pucky and search for the nuggets of truth presented by both sides there is usable information. I just don't understand the need to denegrate one island in a thread that has nothing to do with the subject matter the OP intended it to have so many posts since.

It is natural to try to protect our favorite ____________ (fill in the blank). Bashing someplace for what is a totally subjective opinion isn't. That type of behaviour is more common by politicans and lawyers (are they the same?). The rest of us are smarter and better than that. Finding fault with something else as a means of protecting your view is not the right way to defend a point of view.

Personally, the more vicious a defender becomes the less credence I give to their remarks. That is true of both sides of the personal attacks presented here.
But the nuggets of usable information are there so I continue to sort them out.

Just my thoughts.

... and that is fine as I am entitle to my thoughts as well.

notice also that I did not bash any island over another. I posted links to the US government recommendations for travel to both islands and wrote, "you be the judge". My thought would be that an individual who has traveled to one island and not another can certainly draw a better conclusion based on the comparison.

Just my thoughts and thanks for allowing me to have them, just as I have allowed you to have yours.

 

[Mossman]

I found it extremely relaxing since they were hired to to protect myself, my family and my valuables. The island isn't without crime, so I found it extremely relaxing to see the resort I chose to spend my money with was using some it to ensure the safety of it's guests. Perhaps some resorts on Bonaire might want to look into this instead of using the 'ignore' method which has resulted in the escalation of the crime to the point of the original poster starting this thread.

Many/most of the resorts do have guards and they're fenced, in response to past crime waves. Undoubtedly security will further increase after this latest crime wave. Still, people appreciate Bonaire for its small-island charm and I doubt there are very many that want armies of armed guards pointing guns at everyone.

But you keep confusing "safety of guests" with "safety of guests' property". How many situations have you heard of where there was actually physical violence perpetuated against tourists (not counting the barfight we almost got into my first time there )? If crooks were breaking into hotel rooms and kidnapping babies, stabbing people in their sleep, mugging people in the broad daylight on Karel's pier, or shooting them with spears underwater, then I'd agree with you that Bonaire needs guards with guns everywhere. But they're not, so I don't.

Again, let's not deflect what the topic is. It was not in regard to petty thievery at dive sites. It was about room invasions which is on a totally different scale of brazenness and danger.

Highly uncommon, will be even less common in the future, and how dangerous did they turn out to be?

Didn't notice any gun battles, was too busy enjoying the restfulness and solitude created by the lack of murderous thugs and criminals.

Apparently the stealthy crooks of Bonaire are even quieter - yet another reason to visit the island. Even when your condo is getting robbed, you can still enjoy your beauty rest.

As noted, too late, already booked and air line tickets for 4 paid for.

I feel sorry for you. Judging from your posts, you probably will hate the place. I've heard from some old Marine buddies that there's nice diving out at Guanatamo, however. Maybe that's more your style?

I plan on leaving as large a carbon foot print on the face of this planet as possible.

If you can't be known for anything worthwhile, might as well be known for something. Good luck with that Rolex and all the family jewels.

 

[Mike]

But you keep confusing "safety of guests" with "safety of guests' property".

I don't know where I have or am confusing the two.

So far it has all been about property.

If it escalates to personal safety, that will be an entirely new escalation of the problem, on par as the contrast between - petty thievery at dive sites and ransacking rooms and breaking open safes.

Apparently the stealthy crooks of Bonaire are even quieter - yet another reason to visit the island. Even when your condo is getting robbed, you can still enjoy your beauty rest.

Apparently.

I feel sorry for you. Judging from your posts, you probably will hate the place. I've heard from some old Marine buddies that there's nice diving out at Guanatamo, however. Maybe that's more your style?

Thanks for the tears. But we will be fine. We will take the appropriate measures to ensure the security issues don't have to spoil the trip, nor that we end up like the original poster.

My style is basically not having to worry about somebody breaking into your room while you are gone, ransacking it and breaking into the safe or invading your room at night while you are sleeping. Crazy, I know, but I have these really unrealistic expectations, I know.. I know... what can I say.

If you can't be known for anything worthwhile, might as well be known for something. Good luck with that Rolex and all the family jewels.

Worth while to me. I have a tire fire going in the back yard right now. You should see the plume of smoke I have going.

But I'm also a big humanitarian. I am sending a shipment of snow shovels to Washington DC to help them dig out of this global warming induced most snow fall in recorded history there. I could only afford to help just DC, cause for the first time in recorded history we also have global warming induced snow on the ground in 49 states all at the same time. That global warming is a bitch!

 

[Mossman]

But I'm also a big humanitarian. I am sending a shipment of snow shovels to Washington DC to help them dig out of this global warming induced most snow fall in recorded history there. I could only afford to help just DC, cause for the first time in recorded history we also have global warming induced snow on the ground in 49 states all at the same time. That global warming is a bitch!

You'll feel better in Bonaire after you see signs of coral bleaching from increasing water temps and damage from past hurricanes that all your efforts haven't been for naught. Still, we global warming conspiracy theorists now prefer the term "global climate change" to refer to all the calamitous changes being caused by manmade overproduction of greenhouse gases, not just the record high temperatures that many places in the world have recently experienced.

Please report back on all the crimes that befell you during your adventurous trip to dangerous Bonaire. I sense you'll be rather disappointed if you find it the lazy relaxing safe paradise that I've grown to know and love and don't have any incidents, so let me give you one piece of advice: don't take the rental truck insurance and make sure not to document any dents and scratches previously there, then you can have a field day trying to return it to the airport when you're hurrying to catch your flight home

 

[pilot fish]

"But you keep confusing "safety of guests" with "safety of guests' property".

What happens to the guest on Bonaire when he comes back to his room while the crooks are there with crowbars, still pulling the safe out of the wall and ransacking the place? Do the Bonaire crooks say, sorry and just leave? Do they attack/assault the guest and finish the crime? Does the guest attack them? What happens to the guests when he awakes from sleep, with the Bonaire crooks in the room? Do they leave, or put the guest back to sleep? Does anyone really know? Has this happened already, where the guests were also attacked/assaulted, but the police on Bonaire and Bonaire Gov has kept it quiet, so as not to scare tourists away?

Since Bonaire Gov and police does not publish any of their crime stats, it's hard to know the real truth? That concerns me.

 

[DandyDon]

I am going to look into going to Bonaire when I get back from Roatan in a couple of weeks if I can get the costs down enough. I have fare alerts set up to watch Bonaire and Cozumel both for my birthday week. Coz air is less than $400, private room & air package with an Orbitz coupon only $536 for a week - no snoring competition with my home bud!

Bonaire air is currently almost $800 air, air & hotel at Dive Flamingo is $1112 on a shared room - but maybe I can find some better ways. The air & connections are both lonnng, but if we can get the dollars down enough - I'd like to try it. I can insure well, cover my actions well, and deal with it. I'd be a sitting duck if I arrived as a naive tourist without these SB discussions on problems, but forewarned - I can be okay I think.

I looked for another post that came up once on a Bonaire burglary thread that really struck me as very odd. She only posted once here which could make me suspicious, except she was not here to bash Bonaire as you will see. She just found the discussion after searching the net I suppse and shared from her experiences. From this post...

Darren,
I empathize greatly with you and am so sorry your great diving experience ended this way. I too was a victim of "Petty Crime" in Bonaire in Ocotober 2007. The first night I was there, traveling alone, I woke with a man in my room who then put a hand over my mouth and I don't remember anything until I woke in the morning and found my room had been ransacked and my door left wide open. All my credit cards and passport were left behind. I found my pocketbook and wallet-money taken- outside. The intruder climbed on a chair and in my window while I was sleeping. The police were called and responded about an hour or so later and were VERY rude to me. A day later 13 or so people were arrested for such crimes. (This happened 1 1/2 years ago NOT 2 1/2 years.) I went to the police station to look for my property and there was a large room FULL of phones, cameras, laptops, foreign money etc. My items were not there. I was helped by a WONDERFUL victims advocate who works with the police since I was traumatized by this experience. I do not publicize where this happened because I feel the owner was a victim as well. They were very helpful to me.
This experience has not kept me from going to Bonaire. I have returned a few more times and even bought timeshare there since. I LOVE Bonaire. The diving can not be beat! I am just more careful about my actions and bring nothing valuable that is not neccesary. On our last trip my husband's cell phone was stolen from the open truck while we dove. (Never lock your truck or they will break the windows) It was important to have it with us and we took that risk. ON this occassion the police were very nice but still nothing recovered.
I know there are folks who try to shush victims about the crime on Bonaire but it is important for travelers to be aware. Some locals suggested putting empty glass bottle on your window sills and in front of the door to alarm you of an intruder. I met many locals who have been victims of burglars on Bonaire. I am thankful to live in a very small town with very little crime and now I just make more adjustments for traveling.

Now I had questioned the employee's suggestion that burglars were using some sleep inducing chemical in that Bonaire Talk report, except I remembered that post.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Don, you will really love it! The reefs are healthy and lots of small stuff! The GW BS is just that that have NO environmental damage as Hurricanes are a part of nature and clear the reef for new growth! Water temps there have been consistent for 30 years and the sea level has not change in a very long time! As with all populations there are new things, middle aged things, and things that die! That includes corals as well!

So PM me and I will tell you how to be safe and take a small amount of gear to the dive site with you with out any issues! Have a great time!

My favorite place on Roatan maybe closed? Might be going back to Bonaire in August????