Ballard shooting a movie in Poland

[mania]

Robert Ballard and National Geographic are right now shooting some movies in Poland - about the last trip of German ships -"General von Steuben", Gustlov and Goya. This is supposed to be a movie about the biggest marine catastrophes on the Baltic Sea.
As you probably know Goya was definitely the biggest in the history catastrophe - it's estimated that around 5 thousand people died on this ship when it was bombed by Soviets. The wreck of Goya is laying at 80 meters.
Mania

 

[mempilot]

While diligently monitoring the instruments on last night's flight from Memphis to Austin, I was skimming February's issue of National Geographic Magazine.

There is an article covering the history and recent discovery of the sunken German WWII ship, the Steuben. It's a great article chronicling the retreat of the German military and civilians from Prussia, as the Red Army rolled though the land wreaking havoc on all left behind.

The Steuben, a converted passenger liner, laid duty to the evacuation of thousands of refugees and injured soldiers. In the largest loss of life maritime tragedy in history, the Steuben was torpedoed by a Russian submarine. All but several hundred souls were lost to their new grave in the Baltic Sea.

The wreck was discovered recently, and an exploratory dive expedition was ensued to verify the identity of the ship. This is a great article, and I'm posting a link to the online copy for you all to enjoy. If you are a technical diver, historian, military fanatic, or just plain love stories about the sea, you'll enjoy this article. There were some cool pics in the magazine, and I think there are actually more on the website.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0502/feature2/index.html

The following link highlights notes from underwater photographer, Christoph Gerigk.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0502/feature2/assignment2.html

Enjoy,

Eric

 

[mempilot]

While continuing to research the status of the sunken German WWII ship, the Steuben, I came across some disturbing (in my mind) stories of pilfering and tomb raiding.

It seems that technical divers from Poland and other neighboring countries are raking over the Steuben and other local war graves such as the Gustloff.

In my opinion, many technical divers are historians and archeologists, all be it mostly in an amateur capacity. We seek the 'story', and in many cases the artifacts that are left behind, burried hundreds of feet below the surface. This can be very beneficial to the general public, since no museam will ever house these behemoths of the deep.

The problem, or question comes, when divers go beyond the 'story' and history for personal gain. I normally would not have too much of a problem with this if the site were not a grave. Should we collect specimens from these sites? Should we be allowed to sell them for profit? Or do they belong in museums, or left undisturbed in honor and memory of those buried with them?

Tough question, but the debate has it's champions on both sides.

http://www.millennium-debate.org/tel13nov04.htm

 

[simbrooks]

Should we just send Deep Sea Detectives over to the ship to give us the "complete" story???

I agree on the robbing of these war graves, not cool - but that is human nature i guess for many to take souvenirs.

 

[mania]

Well I have written several times here that Baltic Sea and its Polish cost was a witness of the world's biggest marine catastrophes. Gustloff, Steuben and Goya - on each of them several thousand died (Goya - around 7 thousand, Titanic for most of Americans the biggest catastrophe with its 1500 dead is a small tragedy).

Once more - if you are interested in the history of some wreck you can have a look here:
www.balticwrecks.com
Now a bit of truth. The location of Steuben was known for a long time. As was the location of Goya. The major knowledge is within the fisherman community - they simply know where their nets were stucked. So once it's know by them it's very quickly known by divers.
The best example is another story covered by National Geographic - the discovery of XVII century wooden yacht. In fact it was discovered by Polish divers a year earlier but it was kept secret.
You may ask why? To avoid collecting artifacts.

Artifacts from Goya, Steuben were on the black market for years. It was well known that on these ships were German refugees escaping from Poland when the Red Army was moving west during the IIWW. Most of them were traveling with their most precious belonging. What is most interesting is that the artifacts were not collected by Polish divers. Mainly because at the time were these artifacts started to appear there was simply no technical divers here but the army and police.
None of Polish technical divers - nobody else is capable of diving these wreck - Goya is at the depth of 80 meters, standard temperature of Baltic Sea at this depth is around 3 Centigrades - are collecting artifacts.
A year ago was an accident - 2 divers died while diving on Goya. They were German divers. Nobody knows why were they diving there but Goya was also officially discovered just few years ago.
So mempilot before you start accusing Polish technical divers (most of them I know) of stealing the graves please at least contact me via PM to find out the facts. You know I'm Polish so I may know a bit about it, right?
And BTW all official dives - including the one subscribed by NG were done together with Polish Marine Museum.
All three wrecks have an official status of graves and normal diving there is forbidden.
Mania

 

[mempilot]

So mempilot before you start accusing Polish technical divers (most of them I know) of stealing the graves please at least contact me via PM to find out the facts. You know I'm Polish so I may know a bit about it, right?
And BTW all official dives - including the one subscribed by NG were done together with Polish Marine Museum.
All three wrecks have an official status of graves and normal diving there is forbidden.
Mania

Holy cow, Mania. I never accused anyone of anything. I'm fascinated by these wrecks due to my German heritage and I've been reading about them. Calm down a bit. I posted a link to an article stating that Polish divers were engaged in that activity and found it relavent material. I'm not on either side of the fence. So, if YOU'D like to PM me, go ahead. But maybe you should leave the emotion at home.

 

[mempilot]

Maybe there is a language barrier here.

"It seems there are.." does not mean I am saying "there are". I was merely pointing out a statement from an article.

 

[mania]

OK but the statement in the paper is wrong. My English is not perfect but - yes i do see the difference between "there is" and "it seems there is". Honestly - not much of it. Mempilot - for me these are graves and as such we should pay as much respect as we are to all graves. As much as you are interested because of your German heritage you should also then understand my reaction when it seems that my friends are being accused of doing things they never ever did. Yes - those divers who took part in this expedition as well as in many others covered by National Geographic are people I know, respect and learn from. So please understand my emotions.
Now simply coming back to the topic. You know, I know and almost everybody here knows that there is a black market for artifacts from wrecks. somebody is diving for it, somebody else is buying it. Demand and supply law, right?
OK, mempilot - come over here. For some great wreck dives. We have almost everything - sailor ships, uboots and other war wrecks. I'll organize everything for you. All you need is a dry suit. Is that a deal?

Mania

 

[Michael Freeman]

Hey, if i insult your friends, can I get that deal.

Just kidding, but it does sound like you have some pretty cool dives in that area.

 

[mempilot]

Mania,

Thanks for understanding that I had no intentions of ill will towards anyone. I appreciate you clearing it up with me. I'd love to dive over there, and I may be getting the chance. There is a chance of me living in the UK for up to a year, so if that happens, I'll be bringing my gear. By then, I should be converted over to a CCR, so the load will be more manageable. I'd love to dive with you and learn more about the wrecks in you area.

Thanks again,

Eric Stadtmueller