Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[mrlipis]

Great post Moose and I like the idea of your experiment but I don't understand the part about the diver not being able to lie on his back. If I am trying to keep you from getting behind me I am going to do whatever necessary to make sure you don't. If you are talking about him/her lying on the bottom, just grab a strap and yank him up. I think you have to take that out of the rules.
Keep something else in mind while doing this experiment, there was no hard bottom. A little hard to re-enact considering the depths that were reported. One last thing... We don't want to see a new title here "experiment gone bad" LOL.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Fish (hubby/dive buddy) and I were talking on the way back from our dive yesterday about DM's we have known (and not loved) and dives we have done with DM guides.

I remember refusing to accept a buddy assignment with a DM who happened to be diving off the same boat. I knew this DM had just finished training and a week before had asked Fish what the hose was for that was connected to an air integrated computer! I figured if she knew that little about equipment I wasn't going to count on her dive skills! Watching her for a few minutes under water proved my concern was justified.

I remember another over-enthusiastic DM who announced to everyone "I am a DM now so you have to listen to and follow me!" WRONG! I was the least experienced diver in our group of 4 with over 300 hours bottom time. We dived regularly together..... Dave signaled Starburst pattern... we hit the bottom and each headed in different directions just long enough for the DM to give up trying to control us. The point is that the DM card does not necessarily qualifiy you to be in control/charge of every diver you hit the water with.

It is easy to see with 20/20 hindsight when the window of opportunity occurred in this incident. We decide that neither of us would be happy if some over reacting DM jumped on our tank and started trying to force us up to the surface because they decided we were doing something outside the dive pan or unsafe! What would we think? how would we react? could we feel endangered enough by someone we couldn't see to get out a dive knife?

Think about that for a minute..... you are doing something you feel competent to do... you feel you have everything under control.....what would go through your mind? Is this person a psycho? Do they think they are pulling some kind of joke? Is this person going to get me bent? Is this person after my tank/air? What if you have been having ear, sinus problems?

I know... what if you are Narc'd? Yeah what if the DM is? I remember on my 30M and 50M chamber dives the two young buck DM's were nark'd off their faces! I had to help them put their BIB masks on for the "deco stops". I did those chamber dives to find out safely how I would react to those pressures, how I would react to being nark'd and find my safe working parameters. Those chamber dives were a couple of the most important dives I will ever do! They sure showed me not to rely on anyone just because they have a piece of paper!

Forgive me for going back to my pet theory. Communication breakdown on the predive buddy interaction was the beginning of the end failure that occurred between this diver and DM.

 

[ItsBruce]

To CDNScubaMoose:

Thank you for your insights and observations and for undertaking the experiment. I think your "ground rules" or the experiment are just fine.

There is a significant difference between a diver who is ignoring a buddy's urging to ascend or who is being obstinate or who is wigged out and a diver who is consciously, actively and aggressively resisting ascending. If I'm going to aggressively resist ascending, my serrated dive knife will be in my hand and I will be aiming for an air hose. (I'm pretty sure my knife will cut it and next time I have to replace a hose, I will test this theory.)

I do not understand why some posters seem to think the description of the victim pushing the DM away equates with resisting. I see it as being obstinate or pig-headed, not as fighting against being brought to the surface.

All along I have questioned whether narcosis may have impacted the DM's ability to handle the situation once it got out of hand. It makes sense to me. Qualifying as a DM does not mean one is immune to narcosis. And getting narced at depth does not, to my understanding, disqualify one from being a DM. In any event narcosis could explain why the DM didn't grab the tank valve when she had the chance.

Now, I'm off to find an old hose. (Do not worry, it will not be under pressure.)

 

[ItsBruce]

It is easy to see with 20/20 hindsight when the window of opportunity occurred in this incident. We decide that neither of us would be happy if some over reacting DM jumped on our tank and started trying to force us up to the surface because they decided we were doing something outside the dive pan or unsafe! What would we think? how would we react? could we feel endangered enough by someone we couldn't see to get out a dive knife?

Think about that for a minute..... you are doing something you feel competent to do... you feel you have everything under control.....what would go through your mind?

I think you've hit the nail on the head.
I don't have a good answer here...other than that it is an issue I will start addressing during the pre-dive.

 

[divengolf]

Sounds strange to me too. I was involved with a couple of fatalities in the Bahamas (both later determined to be heart attacks) and it was just the Bahamian police investigating. Perhaps they are investigators for an insurance company (for either Stuart Cove's or Mr. Wood)?

That was my first reaction and would make sense. I've been involved in a couple business situations that involved potentially large insurance payouts. The insurance companies always hire their own investigators before any big $$ move. My guess is that they are representing a company with a life insurance policy on Ms. Wood. Proceeds may not be payable IF the death is ruled a suicide. I'm not implying that it was a suicide, but that is certainly one of the reasonable avenues of investigation-from the viewpoint of the insurance co.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

That was my first reaction and would make sense. I've been involved in a couple business situations that involved potentially large insurance payouts. The insurance companies always hire their own investigators before any big $$ move. My guess is that they are representing a company with a life insurance policy on Ms. Wood. Proceeds may not be payable IF the death is ruled a suicide. I'm not implying that it was a suicide, but that is certainly one of the reasonable avenues of investigation-from the viewpoint of the insurance co.

Don't know what the rules are in the States but in Canada suicide is covered after the first 12 months of a policy. It may be that the investigation is about apportioning blame so they company can recoup some or all of their costs... but this whole thing is just as speculative as the rest of the thread

I would be interesting to know who the Investigators are working for. I suppose it could be someone besides the insurers .... one wonders how unbiased an investigation it will be.... but others have questioned the police ulterior motives too

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

Great post Moose and I like the idea of your experiment but I don't understand the part about the diver not being able to lie on his back. If I am trying to keep you from getting behind me I am going to do whatever necessary to make sure you don't. If you are talking about him/her lying on the bottom, just grab a strap and yank him up. I think you have to take that out of the rules.

In this incident there was no bottom that the victim could have used to block the DM from getting to the tank valve - the DM should have been able to get under the victim at some point. I don't think I'll go for the strap - if I come in from the front and I get that close then that means I am close enough for the victim to "remove" my mask and/or regulator.

There is a significant difference between a diver who is ignoring a buddy's urging to ascend or who is being obstinate or who is wigged out and a diver who is consciously, actively and aggressively resisting ascending. If I'm going to aggressively resist ascending, my serrated dive knife will be in my hand and I will be aiming for an air hose. (I'm pretty sure my knife will cut it and next time I have to replace a hose, I will test this theory.)

Hence why the "no weapons" rule - I know my DMC's waaaayyyy too well and that would be a loop hole they would jump through in a heart beat. I want to do this little test to help myself determine if it is possible to bring up someone who doesn't want to - as was suggested by some posters with a lot more experience then I have. I tend to agree with you that this was more of an obstinate situation then active resistance ... however if I can be successful with active resistance then a difficult person should be no problem.

 

[ItsBruce]

Ok, I sacrificed a hose for science. I hope PETAH (People for the Ethical Treatment of Air Hoses) does not object. Here is what I found:

A very sharp blade will not do a great deal of damage.
The serrated steak knife that is cut of to 1-1/2 inch (thanks DSS) that I wear on my BCD, will, in one stroke, go most of the way through the hose.
My Spyderco serrated knife will make mincemeat out of the hose.

Note: in my tests, my kid was holding the hose reasonably taut.

 

[alohagal]

From what I understand the DM in question was part of the crew and not a DM hired only to take care of Ms Wood, but after reading other posts it seems that may not have been the case. I emailed the dive invest guys only moments ago who were requesting the download from my dive computer that morning so hopefully we will know the true answer to this question soon.

You said earlier in this thread that you posted about what the DM in question had to say about this incident. Or that you did speak with her. Can you either direct me to that post or tell me what she had to say about "losing" Ms. Woods? I know it has been stated by people who were there...that she came up quite upset and turned her back to the divers on the boat and started talking on her cell phone. What did she say to you directly?

Appreciate your being here for this thread.

Thanks in Advance,
Mary

 

[dwhthediver]

I remember thinking to myself, if I am an insurance underwriter for a dive company, I think I want to write into their contract that they take all staff out "on maneuvres" at least once a year to practice rescue drills and really have the DMs put through their paces. When the time comes, somebody's life (lives?) are on the line, so let's prepare like that is what is at stake.

I wonder if many dive ops do things like that? It would be hard given the shoe-string budget that many operations are forced to run on.

Which is why I am so thankful that the shop I teach at requires us to do just that every April, and as far as I know, only shop in the area to require it.