Badly trained?

[Thalassamania]

Now some charter boats won't let me do "advanced dives" because I don't have AOW.

Use your NAVED card, thats "Master Diver," isn't it?

 

[captain]

Use your NAVED card, that "Master Diver," isn't it?

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but then they may not let me dive the equiptment I was originally trained on, double hose reg, no BC, no octo, etc.

 

[maged_mmh]

Comparitivly, AOWD is Advanced OWD = One step over Open Water Diver. It doesn't mean you are more advanced than anyone. just that your have advenced your knowledge above the OWD. Sure you can do that by Experience or by Training. I chose Training to learn it the "Tried and True" way, not just going out there to learn it "my" way which in anything will someday get you into trouble.

Also, I have 6 specializations and ya know what, I am STILL labeled as "Advanced Open Water Diver" as my Highest Certification.

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your highest PADI Certification is:[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Advanced Open Water[/FONT]"

I guess I am stuck here until Rescue Diver

AOWD Actually does give you a good bit of information. I sat for 2 hours practicing my knots for Search and Recovery. I memorized the Table for begining PPB, Walked around the Yard with a compass for Navigation and spent countless hours just Planning theroetical Dives for Multilevel, Air and Nitrox (with varying O2%) Granted I didn't get any Nitrox stuff from "Adventures in Diving" but you get my drift.

"Adventures in Diving" has a great amount of knowledge for the OWDs that want to try it. And it is stuff that you don't learn by just getting out there.

BIG THUMB-UP for this post

 

[Web Monkey]

With your indulgence please ... "until OW testing returns to being much more ..." Certification cards did once mean something.

The only way I can think of where an OW cert will have a defined meaning regardless of where it was earned is if the OW dives are done by a disinterested 3rd party (like getting your well tested for coliform by a lab, not a real-estate agent)

As long as there is a financial interest in pushing students through quickly, the certs will only become more meaningless.

I just got back from a a cruise and went on ship dive (only on port a few hours). The level of incompetence was truly saddening. (I had originally written "astonishing", but since I do this almost every year, it wasn't unexpected)

Terry

 

[aquakiwi]

I'm hearing lots of good comments but also veiled suggestions as to I teach more so my students will be better etc etc. Of course there are good and bad Instructors just as there are good and bad O/W & AOW. But what about the individual who does his 4 - 9 dives and gets his/hers certification, goes away and then pops up 1-3 years
later. In the intrim period no dives have been done and all that was learn't forgotton. But hey I'm an AOW. The time to relearn these skills is before your on the pitching deck of a dive boat with your gear on back to front. The onus on some of the lack of skill should fall back on the diver. Mind you I'm not in the land of litigation.

 

[GA Under Water]

There are also Bad students. In my class there were 6 of us Well, 7 but one didn't even show up. 2 of us, my wife and I, had our reading and knowledge reviews done. The rest figured it'd be just as good to just hear it in class. a couple actually paid for the class and the crew-pak the day of the first class. They all ended up passing the required tests but would I dive with them? NOPE!!

in the pool the instructor was going through skills, and while you SHOULD be paying attention, one student is jumping from the bottom of the pool to the surface looking like the Cartoon Sun in "Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail" or throwing the underwater toys to each other. There were a few times the Instructor had to grab these folks to get their attention to do their OWN skill checks. They did get a talking to about this behavior and it slowed a great bit.

If you are one of these people and got nothing out of OWD or AOWD then I would expect as much. Attention to Detail, the instructor should only have to go over what is in the manual and add on his/her nuances, they shouldn't have to read the book to you. I found MUCH information in OWD that I had no clue of before.

Maybe we need to focus on the lazy attitude of the people going for these Certs and not the Manual or the instructors that have worked to get that Cert. Sure, there have to be some that will just "let it slide" and that is bad. For as an instructor, the life you could save will be your students. Students, the life you save could very well be your own.

 

[Jorbar1551]

When i was doing my aow class, i went to a dive shop on the way down to monterey to purchase another mask as i had forgot my other one. my "class" which was only me had already done the orientation, class and pool session. in my visit to the dive shop, i see a mom and son buying their gear...all of their gear. new wetsuit, fins,bc's, full regulator setup including a computer. so as im getting on the boat, i see the two again talking to my instructor. he introduces me to them saying that the two will be joining us in the class. i had about 30 dives before aow and they were doing it the weekend after they got certafied, and had just bought all of their equipment before the first boat dive and deep dive. whatever. he said that they were good enough to be doing 90 foot dives in the pea soup water of monterey. we do giant strides off the boat, and then start to decend. the insructor, dm and i start to decend. the other two do not. the son was about 220lbs and was only wearing 18 lb of lead. he was about as bouyant as a bouey. he was given another few pounds carried by the instructor and the dm which was enough to be slightly bouyant so they could pull him down a little before he could decent the rest of the way. the rest of the dive went fine although the boy had to hold on to the anchor chain at 15 feet so he would'nt shoot up.

the next dive, the mother thought the crew would change her tanks so after our s.i. she was first in the water. the second dive was only 45 feet deep, but when she got to the bottom, she had 800 psi left. she freaked and went to the surface by herself doing a semi slow ascent. after the dive and the ride in she said she got super cold and so the instructor let her rent a drysuit from the nearest shop. she would be doing her first drysuit dive during her first night dive. great.

the boy didnt have a backup light and still nearly not enough weight. we get to the bottom, but everything goes fine for most of the dive. the womans drysuit floods and she gets to go up. the son and i were swimming in till we were low on air and at about 25 feet, my light floods. while my light is out, i didnt see him shoot from the depths to the surface and neither did the instructor. 2 minutes later as we still are going up, i realize that my buddy is missing and tell the instructor. we surface and find him about a hundred yards away. o ya, and he lost his primary light. it could've been bad.

the next day was nothing special. the navigation dive was easy but the search and recovery dive was really "hard". we swam out to about 25 feet, and the instructor told us to stay where we are, he was going to place a spool out there, and we are supposed to find the spool doing a search pattern. well we all go out there, and we cant find the spool. i thought we werent doing it right. the instructor goes to where he put it, but he cant find it. another diver took it thinking that someone lost it. all in all, it was just about the worst class i've ever took. i had the skills that i needed and would continue to work on from dives before in the cenotes in mexico, and the dives i was doing with a dive group. these two thought they could get the skills from taking a class.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Jorbar1551,

Unfortunately I've seen lots of classes just like that.

 

[Web Monkey]

Jorbar1551,

Unfortunately I've seen lots of classes just like that.

Hey, at least nobody was bleeding.

Sorry, I couldn't resist, I went on another cruise and dove with the "DiscoverSCUBA victims

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm hearing lots of good comments but also veiled suggestions as to I teach more so my students will be better etc etc. Of course there are good and bad Instructors just as there are good and bad O/W & AOW. But what about the individual who does his 4 - 9 dives and gets his/hers certification, goes away and then pops up 1-3 years
later. In the intrim period no dives have been done and all that was learn't forgotton. But hey I'm an AOW. The time to relearn these skills is before your on the pitching deck of a dive boat with your gear on back to front. The onus on some of the lack of skill should fall back on the diver. Mind you I'm not in the land of litigation.

Nothing veiled about it. TEACH MORE SO THAT YOUR STUDENTS WILL BETTER!!! Sure there are good and bad instructors, but as far as I can see there are no good O/W & AOW, at least as they’re presently configured, the time allotted is not adequate even for the best student to learn from the best instructor. Everyone is settling for an inferior product.