Badly trained?

[grazie42]

I´ll just have to disagree with most here about the aow...the points about it not being "advanced" are (obviously) right but I don´t think that makes it a "crap course".

For me it was a cheap, easy way to commit to 5 dives after OW. I had no expectation to get any more out of it than 5 dives, mostly I didn´t either. But I still think the deep dive and navigation were good introductions to those things. Certainly navigation was worthwhile and the deep dive impressed upon me what a bad idea it was for me to be at 30mtrs at that time.

I think that any DM (I´m not one) that puts any stock in a aow-cert is the one with the problem, rather than the diver. Divers are new, the DM is supposed to know better...If I were a DM, I´d start out with the assumption that most divers (forget about certs) are crap and proceed accordingly, tbh I think you´d be more right than wrong with that approach...

 

[anzac65]

......In my OW class we were introduced to buoyancy control techniques (though as a stark beginner, it was not expected to be perfect). The PPB is a specialty meant to help a diver build on & improve their buoyancy (it vastly improved mine, even though I've not yet completed the course). The only way to perfect buoyancy is practice, practice & more practice. The only way to get the practice is to dive, dive & dive. That's how I have managed to get mine decent. If every diver had to perfect every technique before being given OW status, why not just make DM or instructor entry level? While every diver should make a reasonable effort try to control themselves, Not everyone is perfect. Even the best divers can have a bad dive where techniques may be a little or even a lot off. That's life.

For my two pence worth, having just qualified, I consider the above to be very wise words. Thanks TStormWarning.

 

[Thalassamania]

If every diver had to perfect every technique before being given OW status, why not just make DM or instructor entry level?

I know that you may find this hard to believe, but once upon a time, in a land far way there were only two certifications, Diver and Instructor. That Diver was, on the whole, at least as knowledgeable and competent as many of the new instructors I see today, in fact the skill performance standards of the original Diver course read remarkably like the entry requirements for today’s Instructor programs. So, as you suggested they did, over the years, make instructor remakably similar to entry level.

 

[MikeFerrara]

......In my OW class we were introduced to buoyancy control techniques (though as a stark beginner, it was not expected to be perfect). The PPB is a specialty meant to help a diver build on & improve their buoyancy (it vastly improved mine, even though I've not yet completed the course). The only way to perfect buoyancy is practice, practice & more practice. The only way to get the practice is to dive, dive & dive. That's how I have managed to get mine decent. If every diver had to perfect every technique before being given OW status, why not just make DM or instructor entry level? While every diver should make a reasonable effort try to control themselves, Not everyone is perfect. Even the best divers can have a bad dive where techniques may be a little or even a lot off. That's life.

It's a shame that so many have come to accept the "common" way of doing things as the only way or the correct way.

IMO, a student diver shouldn't leave the pool (or other confined water ) until they are proficient in basic dive skills. Depth and position control are, of course, amoung the most basic and most important of those skills.

IMO, the whole idea of teaching a diver to kneel and breath on a reg and certifying them to go out and learn to actually dive on their own is beyond stupid.

An OW course shouldn't just introduce those skills, it should teach them and not certify a diver until they have learned them. Support of this logic can be found right in some agencies training standards. The buoyancy control requirements in OW are extremely minimal. For courses beyond OW, there is no buoyancy control requirements at all. That first class is your one and only chance to be taught. If you miss it then, you'll have to teach yourself. I'm not forgetting about the PPB course. It's not a requirement for anything and it just doesn't count.

 

[Thalassamania]

IMO, the whole idea of teaching a diver to kneel and breath on a reg and certifying them to go out and learn to actually dive on their own is beyond stupid.

Way beyond, but then why teach it now when you can charge to teach it tomorrow.

 

[Walter]

I'm not forgetting about the PPB course. It's not a requirement for anything and it just doesn't count.

It's designed to teach what should have been taught in OW. What a rip off!

 

[Web Monkey]

I Divers are new, the DM is supposed to know better...If I were a DM, I´d start out with the assumption that most divers (forget about certs) are crap and proceed accordingly, tbh I think you´d be more right than wrong with that approach...

The problem is that a C card can mean anything or nothing, and the real problem isn't the divers it's the variability of the training and the "flexibility" of the testing process.

The OW written exam is pretty minimal, and the OW dives are very subjective.

Some instructors will refuse to sign off on a diver who just doens't seem like they have a real grasp of all the necessary information and skills, while others will sign off on a diver who simply manages to not get killed.

Although the basic skill set is supposedly the same, there is a huge difference in the "optional" areas such as bouyancy control (and teaching how to actually achieve it), pre-dive checks, setting up your own gear and checking your own air every time, etc.

In business, if you can't measure it, you can't control it. Until OW testing becomes much more objective (not necessarily harder), the certs will remain meaningless.

There's nothing wrong with any level of certification as long as it represents a known skill level.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

I charge (when I charge) a grand a head. As I add up what my students get (at least equivalent to: Open Water, Advanced Open Water, Peak Performace Buoyancy, Rescue Diver, and Specialty Courses covering Free Diving and Decompression) I'm starting to think I'm underpriced. What would that suite run from an LDS?

 

[Thalassamania]

In business, if you can't measure it, you can't control it. Until OW testing becomes much more objective (not necessarily harder), the certs will remain meaningless.

With your indulgence please ... "until OW testing returns to being much more ..." Certification cards did once mean something.

 

[captain]

I know that you may find this hard to believe, but once upon a time, in a land far way there were only two certifications, Diver and Instructor. That Diver was, on the whole, at least as knowledgeable and competent as many of the new instructors I see today, in fact the skill performance standards of the original Diver course read remarkably like the entry requirements for today’s Instructor programs. So, as you suggested they did, over the years, make instructor remakably similar to entry level.

So true, my 1970 YMCA course was " scuba diver" and the recommended depth restriction was 130 fsw. The next level was instructor. Now some charter boats won't let me do "advanced dives" because I don't have AOW. Many times I have had to sort out bouyancy and other problems of newly certified friends.