Badly trained?

[Cheekymonkey]

Sorry you see that its crap,especially that you are a PADI instr. I believe..Why not look at the 5 dives as a learning experience for the student to gain skills that may have taken them 20 or more dives to get on their own,if ever....also use it to introduce student to areas other than where they were originally ow certified,not just the same old quarry..Hopefully that way you may increase their interest in diving and they will stay in it instead of after making the same exact dive in a quarry over and over again,,gets boring after a while and they drop out....You live in a area where you can go for lobsters,after completing skills for adventure dive show them how to catch a lobster..take them to an area for search/recovery and after necessary skills are completed show them where to find some antique(1800's) bottles..Have to use advance/adventure dives to open doors for them,not just the same old one..

It certainly is all of those things, and I didnt say what I said about it happily, but mostly its crap, it is a sampling of a bunch of different things, you do the deep dive with them, they ask if they are a deep diver, nope, take the course, and do more dives, same thing with any of the other specailties the PADI AOW course samples. What it is is 5 more dives worth of much needed experience nothing more, certainly no reason to call it advanced open water. Its more like, "What we left out of OWcourse water"

 

[tstormdiver]

warm water trained or cold water trained, it should have no difference in skill development. However, I do know that OW training should incorporate buoyancy control as part of the course.
As a matter of opinion, I believe buoyancy control can keep you out of trouble or lack thereof have you in trouble as much or more than not knowing how to clear your mask or find your regulator with a J sweep.
Why doesnt OW training include PPB? That should not be a specialty, it should be a basic skill.

I beg to differ with you a tad. There is quite a difference between warm & cold water diving. I do mostly quarry diving (cold (or at least cool) water). While yes, the basic skills may be the same, it is much more difficult to perform with 5mm gloves on (much less dexterity), a hood that limits the range of motion of your head, a wet suit that generally restricts some movement & adds lots more positive buoyancy. There is also the general stress of the cold itself. If you don't believe it, you should see how much longer a tank will last me in warm water than in the cold. With thicker wet suits there is a big change in buoyancy & controlling it can be quite a challenge (been there done that). Dry suits are an entirely different beast as many divers use the suit to control their buoyancy or at least use enough air to keep off the squeeze & use the BCD to control it. Even that extra air can affect buoyancy control significantly. In my OW class we were introduced to buoyancy control techniques (though as a stark beginner, it was not expected to be perfect). The PPB is a specialty meant to help a diver build on & improve their buoyancy (it vastly improved mine, even though I've not yet completed the course). The only way to perfect buoyancy is practice, practice & more practice. The only way to get the practice is to dive, dive & dive. That's how I have managed to get mine decent. If every diver had to perfect every technique before being given OW status, why not just make DM or instructor entry level? While every diver should make a reasonable effort try to control themselves, Not everyone is perfect. Even the best divers can have a bad dive where techniques may be a little or even a lot off. That's life.

 

[Mr.X]

In all fairness it is hard to assess competency without some type of pre-dive test. In the olden days I was typically given a group of unknowns to work with, or sometimes guide. My procedure was to initiate a fact-finding conversation, check logbooks, check their competency with regards to setting up and then decide what type of experience to give them. Small group with my divemaster in tow, or a individual excursion in the shallows.

I do find many instructors lumping students into one category or another, or fantasizing they can manage anyone underwater because they are - instructors!
A barometer and standard that I carried was that I could only manage one person in a rescue. If I decided a student was dodgy they'd get the individual attention needed. Being sued, or having some injured on your watch makes for a bad day, if not a lifetime.

Big question is: Did you assess the learners prior to labeling them as terrible?

X

 

[aquakiwi]

The point I'm making is 9 dives is not enough to gain experience. Even a 1000
dives may not be enough if all are in similar conditions. Hell I know Insructors
with countless dives but all in cruisy conditions.In most cases more dives will give you more experience and confidence. I still think a certified O/W diver shoud have been taught that kicking your fins = motion.

 

[Mr.X]

The point I'm making is 9 dives is not enough to gain experience. Even a 1000
dives may not be enough if all are in similar conditions. Hell I know Insructors
with countless dives but all in cruisy conditions.In most cases more dives will give you more experience and confidence. I still think a certified O/W diver shoud have been taught that kicking your fins = motion.

I reiterate - getting to know your clientele is crucial. Certainly some divers suck, and they will certainly do the strangest things underwater. If it is my responsibility to work with strange, weird, god awful divers (let's hope not) it is incumbent on me to communicate with them their possible experience with me and to assess their ability prior to splashing in, or in some cases not splashing in. To date, I have not had one accident on my direct watch. Additionally, I never let an employer or client tell me how it's going to be. Heck, in a court of law it will always be my butt on the line.

X - Instructor Trainer and Lapsed PADI instructor

 

[GA Under Water]

Comparitivly, AOWD is Advanced OWD = One step over Open Water Diver. It doesn't mean you are more advanced than anyone. just that your have advenced your knowledge above the OWD. Sure you can do that by Experience or by Training. I chose Training to learn it the "Tried and True" way, not just going out there to learn it "my" way which in anything will someday get you into trouble.

Also, I have 6 specializations and ya know what, I am STILL labeled as "Advanced Open Water Diver" as my Highest Certification.

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your highest PADI Certification is:[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Advanced Open Water[/FONT]"

I guess I am stuck here until Rescue Diver

AOWD Actually does give you a good bit of information. I sat for 2 hours practicing my knots for Search and Recovery. I memorized the Table for begining PPB, Walked around the Yard with a compass for Navigation and spent countless hours just Planning theroetical Dives for Multilevel, Air and Nitrox (with varying O2%) Granted I didn't get any Nitrox stuff from "Adventures in Diving" but you get my drift.

"Adventures in Diving" has a great amount of knowledge for the OWDs that want to try it. And it is stuff that you don't learn by just getting out there.

 

[Walter]

Once more its not the content or course. It's what the Inst. put's into the class and what the student takes from the class and contiues to build on that matters.

So I can take a class in auto repair and if I have the right instructor and if I take the right things from it, I'll be a better diver? Of course it's the content and the course. A good instructor can overcome a poor course, but that's the exception, not the norm. Most courses are taught exactly as designed by the agency. AOW is a joke.

Walter: Some boats will require AOW to let divers do certain dives.

I know and it is ridiculous.

 

[baitedstorm]

Certainly some divers suck, and they will certainly do the strangest things underwater. If it is my responsibility to work with strange, weird, god awful divers (let's hope not) it is incumbent on me to communicate with them their possible experience with me and to assess their ability prior to splashing in, or in some cases not splashing in.

I think you develop a sort of sixth sense for these divers.

I never let an employer or client tell me how it's going to be.

Amen :god:

 

[stevetim]

Maybe the word "Advanced" should be dropped in favor of the word "Adequate", or "Intermediate"...according to what most posters here are describing of newer divers getting their AOW. I understand OP's reference wasn't directly at AOW'ers.

I'm sure there are quite a few divers who take AOW just to be able to tell other divers that they are, indeed, "Advanced Divers". Kind of a badge of supremeness...pfft.

But as it is, unless you guys want government, or any dive agency for that matter, to step in with some kind of actual licensing protocol like driving, I wouldn't stir the hornets nest about newer divers all that much.

 

[baitedstorm]

Maybe the word "Advanced" should be dropped in favor of the word "Adequate", or "Intermediate"...

Hey Walter..... Your eyes are gonna stay like that if you don't quit rolling them


I'm not thinking those words even work. I like the idea of getting divers who are newly certified back out in the water and diving, but giving them a title that contains the word "advanced"..... yikes! No way... When I took my AOW I thought it was going to be a serious class. I read everything in that entire book expecting to learn great things from the actual dives. Whoa, was I ever wrong. That was the biggest "gimme class" I've ever taken.