Badly trained?

[jeckyll]

...
AOW is a joke.
...

I know and it is ridiculous.

I don't disagree one bit. But that is a reason why some people take AOW. Just so they can do the deeper dives.

Recently, I saw a new diver straight out of OW and AOW (taken in a row) dive to 100 fsw in cold dark water. Made me queasy even though he was 'accompanied' by an instructor. If he'd gotten lost ...

Bah. Nuff said.

 

[aquakiwi]

I have to agree with a lot of these posts. As for myself I tell my students to
go and dive, dive, dive and then come and do an AOW. As a lot of you will attest
there are some newly certified divers you feel you could dive with under most
situations and others who need a lot more confidence building. As an indepedent
Instructor I can help here but often working for a shop I'm placed under a time
restraint. Regarding warm and cold water diving I feel that the extra weight
required in cool water the major problem. I don't usually post this much but I'm
recuperating from a back injury.

 

[Mr.X]

I have to agree with a lot of these posts. As for myself I tell my students to
go and dive, dive, dive and then come and do an AOW. As a lot of you will attest
there are some newly certified divers you feel you could dive with under most
situations and others who need a lot more confidence building. As an indepedent
Instructor I can help here but often working for a shop I'm placed under a time
restraint. Regarding warm and cold water diving I feel that the extra weight
required in cool water the major problem. I don't usually post this much but I'm
recuperating from a back injury.

I hope you recover quickly and thank you for bringing this topic up. It's always an interesting conversation and really points towards what "typical" should be for a suggested certification level - student side, as well as the instructional side.

I've seen some appalling sights on the surface and underwater. I always try to stay away from quarries and as much as I love it - Catalina's Avalon dive park on the weekends. There we can see all levels of diver and instructor readiness. I have performed many assists and rescues there. If anything, I see red when I know how poorly trained some of these divers are and at the same time count my blessing that I am not qualifying them...since I would take them back to basics.


On a funny note I had a 15 year old student argue with me why she needed to wear 22 lbs of lead with a 5mm suit. She was 5' and all of 90-100 lbs. Her explanation - my instructor told me that this is the way to get to the bottom and be on my knees, plus my custom suit is really buoyant! After four dives she was down to 6-8 lbs, but she still argued that her original diving config. was correct. This episode points to - a lack of instruction at the outset.

X

 

[victor]

Maybe the word "Advanced" should be dropped in favor of the word "Adequate", or "Intermediate"...according to what most posters here are describing of newer divers getting their AOW. I understand OP's reference wasn't directly at AOW'ers.

I hope padi does not see this. A new card between OW and AOW the IOW.

Requirements OW and $250
2 hours classroom and 4 open water dives.
New max depth of 80ft.
pre-requisite for doing advanced open water
marketing opertunity to sell the nitrox course, more equipment etc.

 

[Thalassamania]

The name "intermediate" was rejected because it was not felt to be "marketable." Keep in mind that when the "rules" for Advanced Diver were put in place for charters and such it was based on the NAUI progression and AOW was the THIRD course in a progression that started with a 40 hour Basic Diver (or Open Water Diver) folowed by Sport Diver (later Open Water II) and then Advanced Diver. It was a real card that carried real weight. Today to be a diver you need to take Open Water plus all the things they've cut out like rescue, buoyancy, decompresson, deeper diving, "adventure" dives, etc. "Yesterday's" Basic Diver is more like today's PADI Master Diver.

 

[Mr.X]

I hope padi does not see this. A new card between OW and AOW the IOW.

Requirements OW and $250
2 hours classroom and 4 open water dives.
New max depth of 80ft.
pre-requisite for doing advanced open water
marketing opertunity to sell the nitrox course, more equipment etc.

A "learning" organization looks at all data and does not punish those who offer or relate pertinent, timely information. The scuba industry as such has to consider quality of education which equates to consistency of standards for all. From numerous posts here and there it is quite clear that consistency of education is anything but the norm. In the end, it's profit numbers against actual settlements $. Little wonder why instructor insurance is so high here in US.

X

 

[Thalassamania]

Little wonder why instructor insurance is so high here in US.

I'm given to understand that more than half the expense of instructor insurance in the U.S. represents commissions and kickbacks to individuals, corporate and private.

 

[Mr.X]

I'm given to understand that more than half the expense of instructor insurance in the U.S. represents commissions and kickbacks to individuals, corporate and private.

Very interesting! Naturally, policy makers have to profit, but my initial thought was that the cost of litigation/award payments here in the US is out of bounds - which leads to naturally higher instructor premiums.

Gosh I love corporations and kickbacks. :light:


X

 

[Thalassamania]

Very interesting! Naturally, policy makers have to profit, but my initial thought was that the cost of litigation/award payments here in the US is out of bounds - which leads to naturally higher instructor premiums.

Gosh I love corporations and kickbacks. :light:


X

My understanding is that if the "finders fees" were eliminated and the reserves brought into rationale line, premiums could be cut in half.

 

[GA Under Water]

Maybe the word "Advanced" should be dropped in favor of the word "Adequate", or "Intermediate"

Your thought process isn't totally off.

PADI Adventure Diver

Requirements: OWD and 3 Adventure Dives, 3 Knowledge Reviews for those dives.

And YES you do get a Card for it.