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It's ok. I get you two confused anyway.
Bad news from Galapagos, Aggressor 1 Liveaboard is out of service 06/13
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^Why are they both canadian ?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Amazz
Contributor
At the least, the offer by Aggressor for a free voucher for your missed dives is nothing more than a cruel joke. I'm so sorry to hear about your horrific experience and their lack of respectable response. Our situation on the Caribe Dancer was peanuts compare to yours. At least we weren't in danger with the exception of lack of plumbing and the cook barfing in the galley while preparing what she called "food." I hope the public wakes up and chooses to spend their hard working dollars on more deserving liveaboard hosts. I was an Aggressor dealer for years, yet I now refuse to put any guests on their boats. I'll turn down hefty sums of commission because I'm afraid of being sued because of their lack of response to increased deplorable conditions. Time will heal. Get back in the water....but never ever again on an Aggressor/Dancer boat.
DiveTheGalapagos
Contributor
What is being said is true and something I have posted before in the S. American forum. Galapagos liveaboards all have Ecuadorian owners no matter who handles the marketing and sales. So resolving issues can be more complicated. In this case, the US office can deal with straight up reimbursements (for cancelled trips post accident), but must come to an agreement with the owner of the boat in Ecuador for compensation. That's not an attempt to absolve anyone for anything, just the way things are.
The lady's firsthand account is frightening to read, but it sounds to me like the crew was trying to use the Zodiacs and not 'lifeboats'. Zodiacs are lifted and secured when in transit, usually one on each side of the boat, so it sounds to me like the crew did a superb job to free them under the circumstances. And given the situation, Zodiacs with motors designed to hold all passengers for diving, rather than lifeboats without motors, seems logical if possible.
I have received complaints about many aspects of Galapagos liveaboards over the years (most common-hot tub wasn't working), but never about theft. So the crew theft allegation is a new one for me. Theft on a ship in Galapagos means you lose a job most work so hard to get. Employment opportunities are not abundant there, especially secure ones. I've often left money in my purse in my cabin, and other valuables like computers and cameras. Even on the little speedboats that serve as a ferry transfer between islands, theft is considered an affront. Locals ship things to other islands all the time and theft is pretty low especially in light of the opportunity to steal that exists. I know I have even sent a suitcase and forgot to remove $400 from an outside, unlocked zipped pocket. Bag went to 2 islands and then in a taxi to a hotel and yet, no one touched my money. I've even shipped envelopes of cash between islands on a passenger ferry without problems. (No banks on Isabela can make paying hotels, tours, etc a challenge and this is sometimes the only way.)
Now, having said that, if a boat has an accident, it is true that locals descend upon it like thieves picking a car left by the freeway in the Bronx of yore. I had reports that local fishermen were even diving the next day to see what they could salvage below. And no one would dare report anyone looting because everyone is related in some manner -either by blood or proximity. I was told by the owner of the Alta when it ran aground a few years back that they were not allowed to remove anything from the ship due to local law and insurance. This is commonly known so locals with access indeed come pick it clean. Can't blame the Aggressor crew for concentrating on everyone's safety over their belongings. It's awful and I would be gutted to lose computers, cameras, documents, dive gear, etc. but I would probably be more upset if recovering my belongings had been a priority over safety, even equal to it in terms of the priority. I do hope anyone who was onboard is compensated through the Aggressor or insurance.
I wondered early on if it would have been possible to post a guard, but in retrospect, probably not. Again, no one there could be trusted (not to turn a blind eye) and no one from the outside could get there quick enough to have stopped the looting given the reality of logistics to get to Galapagos from the mainland. I know this seems like a contradiction to my 'no theft culture' statement above, but there is a difference between thieving and looting if you can understand what I mean. The former is not at all culturally acceptable whereas a blind eye is turned towards the latter in these circumstances. I think they must see it as salvage rather than looting.
Still have no clue as to how this could have happened. Nor the Alta running aground basically in port on an islet with a beacon signal. My first thought was that someone wasn't paying attention. Anyone up to the position of timonel (first mate) or Captain can sail these waters without GPS. When I'm onboard, I love having crew members point out to me (and young ones, not just the older ones) stars they used for navigation in Galapagos before GPS. So I'm baffled at the how of this on such a common route. And getting no answers, btw, when I ask that question. Maybe no one knows yet. Easier to blame it on equipment failure than own up to incompetence or plain human error in that situation. There is a strong trend in the culture to reason (err..excuse) away responsibility. I'm sorry is rarely heard. Instead you get an explanation of why it's not their fault.
The lady's firsthand account is frightening to read, but it sounds to me like the crew was trying to use the Zodiacs and not 'lifeboats'. Zodiacs are lifted and secured when in transit, usually one on each side of the boat, so it sounds to me like the crew did a superb job to free them under the circumstances. And given the situation, Zodiacs with motors designed to hold all passengers for diving, rather than lifeboats without motors, seems logical if possible.
I have received complaints about many aspects of Galapagos liveaboards over the years (most common-hot tub wasn't working), but never about theft. So the crew theft allegation is a new one for me. Theft on a ship in Galapagos means you lose a job most work so hard to get. Employment opportunities are not abundant there, especially secure ones. I've often left money in my purse in my cabin, and other valuables like computers and cameras. Even on the little speedboats that serve as a ferry transfer between islands, theft is considered an affront. Locals ship things to other islands all the time and theft is pretty low especially in light of the opportunity to steal that exists. I know I have even sent a suitcase and forgot to remove $400 from an outside, unlocked zipped pocket. Bag went to 2 islands and then in a taxi to a hotel and yet, no one touched my money. I've even shipped envelopes of cash between islands on a passenger ferry without problems. (No banks on Isabela can make paying hotels, tours, etc a challenge and this is sometimes the only way.)
Now, having said that, if a boat has an accident, it is true that locals descend upon it like thieves picking a car left by the freeway in the Bronx of yore. I had reports that local fishermen were even diving the next day to see what they could salvage below. And no one would dare report anyone looting because everyone is related in some manner -either by blood or proximity. I was told by the owner of the Alta when it ran aground a few years back that they were not allowed to remove anything from the ship due to local law and insurance. This is commonly known so locals with access indeed come pick it clean. Can't blame the Aggressor crew for concentrating on everyone's safety over their belongings. It's awful and I would be gutted to lose computers, cameras, documents, dive gear, etc. but I would probably be more upset if recovering my belongings had been a priority over safety, even equal to it in terms of the priority. I do hope anyone who was onboard is compensated through the Aggressor or insurance.
I wondered early on if it would have been possible to post a guard, but in retrospect, probably not. Again, no one there could be trusted (not to turn a blind eye) and no one from the outside could get there quick enough to have stopped the looting given the reality of logistics to get to Galapagos from the mainland. I know this seems like a contradiction to my 'no theft culture' statement above, but there is a difference between thieving and looting if you can understand what I mean. The former is not at all culturally acceptable whereas a blind eye is turned towards the latter in these circumstances. I think they must see it as salvage rather than looting.
Still have no clue as to how this could have happened. Nor the Alta running aground basically in port on an islet with a beacon signal. My first thought was that someone wasn't paying attention. Anyone up to the position of timonel (first mate) or Captain can sail these waters without GPS. When I'm onboard, I love having crew members point out to me (and young ones, not just the older ones) stars they used for navigation in Galapagos before GPS. So I'm baffled at the how of this on such a common route. And getting no answers, btw, when I ask that question. Maybe no one knows yet. Easier to blame it on equipment failure than own up to incompetence or plain human error in that situation. There is a strong trend in the culture to reason (err..excuse) away responsibility. I'm sorry is rarely heard. Instead you get an explanation of why it's not their fault.
Scared Silly
Contributor
No it is not logical, not at all. If they attempted to deploy the zodiacs before the life rafts it is an absolute complete screwup in the worst possible way. When the call to abandon ship came the life raft(s) should have been deploy before any attempts to deploy any other ancillary boats like the Zodiacs. Life rafts are meant for just that saving lives - they should be equipped with locator beacons and other survival gear. The zodiacs have none of that. Sure they have an engine but once there are out of gas - you drift without any survival gear.
No body is saying recover personal property before securing all souls. But bull crap on looting view point - it is all theft plain and simple. What you are saying that the locals will not pick my pocket but if I fall down, hurt myself, and my wallet falls out of my pocket they will steal it.
There is a police presence on the islands. Nobody has to come from the mainland. Further, given that this attitude is known I would think leaving a crew member like the captain who grounded the damn ship in the first place would be reasonable. Especially in this case, given land was near by and the weather appeared to be calm. Any time another boat was in proximity to the wreck the captain could have shuttled between land and the ship in one of the zodiacs they worked so hard to free.
Unfortunately, your explanation for the stealing is doing the same thing. You may not be condoning it but you are not condemning it either.
DiveTheGalapagos
Contributor
Silly...We'll just have to agree to disagree in terms of zodiacs vs lifeboats in this situation. Bet the crew knew exactly where they were even if they couldn't communicate that in Spanish. If this had occurred in deep water in a remote location, I'd agree completely. That was not the case. Plus, everyone has Nautilus Lifelines and radios, so...
Close, but it would depend on where your wallet fell out of your pocket as most would secure it for awhile to see if you came back for it.
I don't know anything in terms of police/captain/guards and why or why not. If I ever learn, I'll let you know. I was just hypothesizing like most others in this thread. I didn't have anyone on Aggressor 1, but several have written me about their observations of post accident who were on Aggressor 2. And you are mistaken. I am not condoning it by any stretch of the imagination. I was merely making a cultural observation period.
There are major cultural differences that can be maddening, but that's the way it is...like it or not. I have gone ballastic in so many situations, I now translate "Tranquila" as "Shut up!". Going ballastic is not done either in their culture. Might as well be an axe murderer than someone who yells or screams. Any attempt to impose on another culture what we consider a superior way of thinking or doing things is an invitation to frustration, not change. Never stopped me I must admit, so you can imagine how fun the clashes have been/can be.
Scared Silly
Contributor
It should not matter where the accident occurred shallow/near deep/remote when the call to abandon ship comes the life raft(s) should have come first. If the ship had run aground and not taken a turn for the worse so quickly I could see using the zodiacs to ferry passengers to safety. But that was not the case.
If the crew/captain knew where they were they would not have hit the damn rocks.
As for the Nautilus Lifelines I am willing to bet not one passenger had theirs when they left the ship.
I agree there are cultural differences. Turning a blind eye to the circumstances may be culturally rooted but theft is theft. Maritime salvaging is completely different. In Europe car clouts are often tollerated (i.e. the police do little about it even when it is persuasive in a particular) but it is treated as theft and condemned.
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All at the Siren Fleet have been very sorry to learn of this incident, but we are pleased that no serious injuries occurred and all guests and crew made it to safety.
Having suffered the loss of 2 of our yachts during 2012, we of course know first hand what a trying a time this can be both for guests and the company involved and have no doubt that this incident in the Galapagos will be thoroughly investigated, but of course that takes time.
Company owners Mark & Frank flew to Layang Layang & Indonesia, respectively, to meet with and assist our guests and crew, organising emergency passports in the case of the loss of the Mandarin Siren (as noted above we now collect all passports into 1 dry bag!) making travel arrangements and providing assistance where needed.
We have a strong team who quickly re-patriated all guests and crew and who then went on to make alternative arrangements for all of the guests who were due on future sailings.
To Cephalapod2
We fully agree with Wookie in the importance of safety briefings, equipment function and regular drills. The collection of passports was not the only new procedure put into place after the loss of the Mandarin Siren. For example we have now made life jacket drills compulsory during each trip.
Incidents such this can occur to even the most safety conscious and prepared of yacht crews & companies, there is of course a risk with any type of travel and whilst efforts can be made to minimize that risk there can never be a 100% guarantee.
Wishing everyone safe & enjoyable diving,
Siren Fleet
Having suffered the loss of 2 of our yachts during 2012, we of course know first hand what a trying a time this can be both for guests and the company involved and have no doubt that this incident in the Galapagos will be thoroughly investigated, but of course that takes time.
All of our guests from both incidents were offered a full refund, money off a future trip and any items lost not covered by the guests' own insurance were claimed under our company policy.
Company owners Mark & Frank flew to Layang Layang & Indonesia, respectively, to meet with and assist our guests and crew, organising emergency passports in the case of the loss of the Mandarin Siren (as noted above we now collect all passports into 1 dry bag!) making travel arrangements and providing assistance where needed.
We have a strong team who quickly re-patriated all guests and crew and who then went on to make alternative arrangements for all of the guests who were due on future sailings.
To Cephalapod2
We fully agree with Wookie in the importance of safety briefings, equipment function and regular drills. The collection of passports was not the only new procedure put into place after the loss of the Mandarin Siren. For example we have now made life jacket drills compulsory during each trip.
Incidents such this can occur to even the most safety conscious and prepared of yacht crews & companies, there is of course a risk with any type of travel and whilst efforts can be made to minimize that risk there can never be a 100% guarantee.
Wishing everyone safe & enjoyable diving,
Siren Fleet
Homi Adajania
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Well here's a pic of The Galapagos Aggressor 1 when we went back at daybreak. Encircled is the life raft that hadn't been deployed. One was deployed only after both the zodiacs were. It wasn't eventually used but was towed to the other Aggressor during the morning.
Homi Adajania
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On a brighter note (which is the preferable note), here are some pics of the absolute majesty underwater around the Galapagos islands... Pure privilege, pure bliss.
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