Bad air

[Garrobo]

One of the posters has brought up the availability of a Carbon Monoxide tester for air in scuba tanks. Is this a real problem? I haven't gotten any bad air so far even in Mexico. I would think that most OP's would carefully moniter their air supply so as not to get a bad reputation.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Dandy Don can fill you in on this subject...

 

[Garrobo]

Uh-huh. I read DD's post but I was wondering if others have had the problem of getting bad air from a diveshop locally or out of the country or is this something that doesn't happen very often.

 

[skippy31]

There was recently a thread about CO poisoning on a live aboard and a Russian diver died, while several others were injured (some fairly seriously).

CO can be a real concern in poorly maintained or gasoline/diesel powered compressors.

Having said that most filter systems contain a CO catalyst that converts the CO to CO2 which is more or less harmless (except in much higher concentrations as compared to CO).

For almost all properly maintained electric powered compressor system CO is no concern. Still it's something to be aware of if your getting fills from internal combustion engine powered compressors...

Mat.

 

[Doc]

Uh-huh. I read DD's post but I was wondering if others have had the problem of getting bad air from a diveshop locally or out of the country or is this something that doesn't happen very often.

I dive out of the country in some real "fourth world" kind of places. Think Roatan in 1979, Cayman in 1965. In thousands and thousands of dives, I have "smelled" bad air three times.

We sat around laughing about this recently. In "the old days" we would drag our air source with us, either by boat or pack mule. Nowadays, SCUBA has become such a potential income source, people on every rock in the ocean are willing to take you out for a dunk.

Ten years ago, you couldn't rent any decent gear or get reliable air in the Galapagos in the port towns, now they have become backpacker meccas with more than acceptable rental gear. Vietnam? No problem.

Is it worth buying and carrying the CO analyzer with you? Personal call. Might be worth doing it between six or seven traveling companions.

Now, I might have "smelled" bad air three times, but after examininga dive op's compressor and air fill station, taking a look at tanks and more- I have walked away from 15 or 20.

And still alive to tell the tale.

 

[DandyDon]

My thread about the CO Tester was my second attempt here to raise awareness about a problem as I see it. Also see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...er-ask-see-fill-air-quality-test-results.html

I'm sure the risk is low, and RoatanMan and many other divers from the days that Scuba was just starting to become a sport have survived, but we probly don't know about so many other deaths and injuries that don't make the news or DAN reports or the cause was never known - see below. One dead, nine injured this month in the Maldives; two dead, one injured in Roatan a couple of years ago - no other information has been released publicly on that one even tho promised by the renown resort but the report should be in the Annual DAN Accidents Report this summer, etc. Is one a year not too many for us to insist on the safety standards required by Padi rules but not enforced?

This DAN article predate my entry into Scuba, but I have no reason to believe that the situation has improved - bold emphasis is mine....

CO Monitors - a carbon monoxide detector can save your life
May / June 1998 Issue, By: Robert N. Rossier

The local diving community recoiled in shock at the tragic death of a diver (Diver 1). He was a well-known and much-admired individual, in addition to being a seasoned diver. When the 60-year-old Diver 1 collapsed and disappeared in 18 feet / 5.5 meters of water during his third dive of the day last year, everyone was baffled.

Based on the initial autopsy, the medical examiner ruled the death an accidental drowning. Only later was the real cause of the problem determined. Prompted by a fellow diver, and others in the diving community, the air in Diver 1's tank was later tested and found to contain 537 parts per million (ppm) carbon monoxide (CO), more than 50 times the maximum limit specified by the Compressed Gas Association (CGA) for Grade-E air. This specification, which serves as the industry standard for air stations throughout the USA, limits CO to 10 ppm.

Diver 1's death brought the total number of CO-related scuba fatalities to two in 1997. Another diver (Diver 2), age 42, died of CO poisoning last year while diving with friends some 10 miles / 16 kilometers offshore.

Only a handful of CO-related scuba fatalities have been recorded in the past two decades. At first glance, the deaths appear to represent a statistically small problem in diving safety, but the circumstances surrounding Diver 1's death may in fact point to a larger problem.

Most states and municipalities do not require testing of a diver's air in the event of a fatality. The autopsy findings of a drowning victim are non-specific, and the presumed cause of death is often based on circumstantial evidence. Routine toxicological studies performed at autopsy do not include a measure of CO blood or tissue levels. Unless CO poisoning is suspected, usually no tests are made to determine levels in the body or the amount in the diver's breathing-gas cylinder. These facts point to the question of how many other diving fatalities might actually involve CO poisoning as a contributing factor. The Diver 2 fatality occurred in a state where the equipment used by diving fatality victims is always confiscated and more in-depth investigations are performed to determine the cause of death.

Scubatoys.com does have a much better price on the tester: CO Cop - Carbon Monoxide Tester, Scuba Tanks, ScubaToys, CO Cop - Carbon Monoxide Tester There does seem to be a problem with being unable to select the Yoke tester but I have emailed Larry. Should be fixed soon, or contact them direct.

Maybe I'll give up and get one. As their ad says...

While there are only a couple deaths a year from Carbon Monoxide in Scuba Air... some feel that is a few too many... and how many people have gotten sick and not died? The only way to know for sure that your air is safe, is to test it.

 

[ianr33]

One of the posters has brought up the availability of a Carbon Monoxide tester for air in scuba tanks. Is this a real problem? I haven't gotten any bad air so far even in Mexico. I would think that most OP's would carefully moniter their air supply so as not to get a bad reputation.

There were 2 deaths in the Yucatan 2 or 3 years ago that were due to carbon monoxide. One of the victims was a physician from Canada. Both were experienced cave divers.

Actually a list of known incidents due to bad air would be interesting.

To start it off:

2 deaths in Yucatan
The Deco Stop

2 deaths at Coco View?

Barney on TDS had an incident with hydrocarbon contamination in Florida.
The Deco Stop

 

[1_T_Submariner]

If you where to buy a tester how often would you test?

Every tank, Once a day, Every boat trip. Just curious if you are buying one of these how often will you use it.

 

[Doc]

Don- that looks like a pretty good idea for $50, it doesn't look to weigh very much.

And then $6 per cartridge for 5 to 20 testings ?

Big question: How do you know when the capsules are pooped out?

Or do you believe the manufacturer and other sellers who claims from 5~10 tests?

At first glance, the deaths appear to represent a statistically small problem in diving safety, but the circumstances surrounding Diver 1's death may in fact point to a larger problem.

At best, the above is poorly worded. The first portion of the sentence has nothing to do with the second part, or conclusory portion. It is a non sequitur. In other words~ one doesn't lead to the other.

At worst, it is alarmist manipulation and obfuscation.

Again- how do you know when the capsules poop out? There is this very vague technical note at: http://www.lawrence-factor.com/images/lf0009.pdf Can anyone read to us from the manual?

Probably a pretty smart idea to have one, no reason not to.

and RoatanMan and many other divers from the days that Scuba was just starting to become a sport have survived

But I still aint right.

 

[swamp diver]

Don- that looks like a pretty good idea for $50, it doesn't look to weigh very much.

And then $6 per cartridge for 5 to 20 testings ?

Big question: How do you know when the capsules are pooped out?

Or do you believe the manufacturer and other sellers who claims from 5~10 tests?


Again- how do you know when the capsules poop out? There is this very vague technical note at: http://www.lawrence-factor.com/images/lf0009.pdf Can anyone read to us from the manual?

Probably a pretty smart idea to have one, no reason not to.



But I still aint right.

If you look here the manufacturer Lawrence Factor indicates the capsule will last 10 tests but that depends on what time interval it is used over. A one week dive trip yes, but one year sitting in your damp dive bag no. The ten use recommendation assumes dry compressed air with no oil mist contamination. Once these capsules are contaminated with moisture, oil, and a few other types of gaseous compounds they will lose their effectiveness. The best advice after ten uses or the dive week would be to replace the capsule. For six bucks I'd rather have a capsule that is fresh than rely on a suspect one. If you really want to know if it is still functioning purchase one of those aerosol cans of CO test gas and spray it on the capsule.
Carbon Monoxide tester for scuba and firefighting


That cartridge you indicated is not the one used for this device. Here is the link to the capsule from LF. ANY colour change according to Mike Casey at LF indicates the breathing air should not be used.
CO-Cop Capsule Color Chart