Backplate compared to Rear Inflate BC ?

[LowVizWiz]

This very well may be the most thank yous I've ever seen in a post.

Thank you!

There are a couple of things people always point out as benefits to a BP&W that are not necessarily unique or exclusive to BP's:

That and the absolute rock solid feeling of my tank never moving (I hated how much it moved around no matter how much I tightened up my jacket BCD) are two advantages that bp/w systems have over rear-inflate BCDs.

This is easily solved by adding or purchasing a BC with a second cam band, I did this to a Balance and most if not all of the Zeagle BC's have 2.

The second is: "The BC riding up" which is easily solved by adding a crotch strap just like you would do so on a BP. I'll agree that a lot of BC's don't have attachment points to hang a crotch strap, but it can be done. I added one to my Ranger for $10!

BP&W are great and have many unique advantages, but those two are not IMO.

Wiz

 

[diveprof]

TS&M covers the situation quite well so I won't repeat. I have seen this progression repeat itself time and again: Jacket BC, to rear inflate, to BPand wings. Rarely have I seen anyone go from BP&wings to a rear inflate or jacket. That said, though I love my BP and wings, I've also enjoyed my Sea Quest Pro (about 16 pounds of lift in a rear inflate that fits like a t-shirt) and ScubaPro Knighthawk. But, I've settled pretty much on my BP and wings.
Besides, I read somewhere that 9 out of 10 women think a crotch strap is sexy.. yeah I read it somewhere so it must be true. Heck with the science of it all

 

[4sak3n]

Thank you!

There are a couple of things people always point out as benefits to a BP&W that are not necessarily unique or exclusive to BP's:



This is easily solved by adding or purchasing a BC with a second cam band, I did this to a Balance and most if not all of the Zeagle BC's have 2.

The second is: "The BC riding up" which is easily solved by adding a crotch strap just like you would do so on a BP. I'll agree that a lot of BC's don't have attachment points to hang a crotch strap, but it can be done. I added one to my Ranger for $10!

BP&W are great and have many unique advantages, but those two are not IMO.

Wiz

No, adding a second cam band (which is not always possible) will not solve my instability problem. What I was talking about was the propensity for the whole scuba unit (BCD and all) to twist around on my back, shifting and sliding no matter how tight I made the straps. I'm serious, I literally tightened the cummer band until I couldn't breathe and it still shifted round. A second cam band wouldn't solve that.

A crotch strap might ... but probably won't since my example with the cummber band shows that the instability was in the top, not the bottom, and the crotch strap can't help with that. Besides that, only about 0.01% (to suck a number out of my thumb) of BCDs can be fitted with crotch straps unless you are heavily into DIY.

If I were to buy a jacket or rear inflate BCD that I would use regularly (i.e. not in a pool) I would definitely look for one with two cam bands. Having one isn't a problem, and you can dive easily with one, but I much prefer having two. Unfortunately this does narrow my choice of jackets and rear inflates enormously but I would still do it because diving with a BP/W has shown me how much nicer having two is.

A crotch strap? As much as I like having one I would have to say no. Looking for one with a crotch strap would narrow my choices down to a handful. Unless there was one in that handful that I liked I wouldn't specifically look for a crotch strap because it would limit me far too much. Now if I was buying a BP/W it would be a totally different story.

Saying: 'oh, but a tiny section of the jacket and rear inflate market can duplicate two of the things which all BP/Ws do" does not seem to me to be refutation of those BP/W advantages. The advantages might not be unique as you pointed out, but they sure are relevant advantages.

An analogy might be: "but one motorcycle can be fitted with a safety belt (I'm thinking of you you BMW monstrosity!!!) so the car isn't the only one with the advantage of a seatbelt". :shocked2:

 

[4sak3n]

Hmmm ... come to think of it, a hard plastic backpack plate in a jacket or rear inflate BC would probably eliminate any tank shifting issues so the stability isn't really an advantage of only BP/Ws.

 

[LowVizWiz]

I hope you didn't perceive my post as a personal attack on you I even removed your name from it for that particular reason, I merely used what you wrote as an example because it was handy.

Also, I can only go by what you wrote, not what you meant. You said:

the absolute rock solid feeling of my tank never moving

The reason tanks move around on BC's is usually the cam band being loose, threaded improperly or that a single high cam band is being used leaving the lower part of the tank unsupported. An improperly fitted BC or BP&W will move around in the same way you describe. The inherent benefit of the BP&W over an off the shelf BC is that it can properly fit a wide range of body styles/shapes with minor adjustments.

 

[4sak3n]

A personal attack? Not at all, i wasn't offended by your post. Discussion is good! Conversely, I hope you don't think I am arguing just to 'be right' or 'to win'.

I think that my phrase 'the absolute rock solid feeling of my tank never moving' was inaccurate. What I was trying to say was that I felt the tank shifting around because the entire unit would shift along my back, fabric and all. But as I said, a plastic plate (which many jackets and rear-inflates use) would solve this so it isn't really a BP/W advantage.

On issue though is that I could never get a 'properly fitted' non-BP/W BCD to fit me as well as a BP/W. Even when it was perfectly fitted the whole unit was still loose and shifted around. A BP/W is harder to adjust properly (which is one advantage for a jacket or rear-inflate: quick adjustment) but when it is properly adjusted it fits like a glove. I've never been able to get that 'like a glove' feeling with a jacket. Granted, that doesn't mean everyone will have the same experience so it is important to note that I am speaking from my own personal experience, not in general.

 

[LowVizWiz]

I didn't want this to turn into a BP vs. BC argument that usually ensues during threads like these, that's why I wanted to make sure I was clear.
I've been exposed to a few divers wearing BP & Wings lately and I absolutely see what all the rage is all about. Had I been exposed to them sooner I may be wearing one right now, but what I have does the job well.
My point is that proper fit, buoyancy, balance & trim can be achieved using either system, but it seems to me that a lot of people claim a BP & W is the only way to attain these and it also cures world hunger and reduces global warming

Wiz

 

[4sak3n]

My point is that proper fit, buoyancy, balance & trim can be achieved using either system, but ...

Wiz

Oh, absolutely, very true that. That is why I suggested in my first post that when deciding one should try them all out.

I was trying to clarify and explain what I feel some of the advantages of a BP/W are over the others but maybe I got a bit side tracked. :blinking:

 

[halocline]

Hmmm ... come to think of it, a hard plastic backpack plate in a jacket or rear inflate BC would probably eliminate any tank shifting issues so the stability isn't really an advantage of only BP/Ws.

My old SP jacket has a hard plastic plate, and it does not solve the tank shifting problem at all. The plastic plates in jackets are usually not very large, really just meant to hold the tank securely with 1 cam strap. They are also not coupled to your back with a 5 point harness. (2 shoulders, 2 hips, and the crotch strap)

The jacket BC was most likely designed to act as a de facto life preserver for new students, and it does a decent job of floating people at the surface. Too bad actual diving takes place under the surface!

Another major issue with jacket BCs, and IMO almost all recreational back inflate BCs, is that they seem to be designed to impress potential buyers in the dive shop, where all that padding and nifty dangly accessories seem like a good idea. Unfortunately, the dive shop sales floor is not exactly like being underwater.

Usually, experienced divers that have the chance to dive with a well designed, minimally invasive BP/W set up are sold immediately.