Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[Zach The Diver]

Yes, they will. Frustrating, isn't it?
They will also write it off for their diving when they do know a good bit about it.
I'm sure that is also frustrating.
Best to just get over it.

Or you can be a good dive buddy and offer what you know (in an appropriate way and in good faith, not as an egotistical jerk) and see if they are interested in trying something they may not be otherwise aware of.

 

[Zach The Diver]

Let's cover this nicely as I don't need another thread ban on the books...

It is sub optimal because it requires a significant investment on the part of operators and divers to be in similar configurations.

The "warm water" comment isn't about the water temp, but about the destination. These are often vacation divers who are only interested in seeing pretty fish for the 5-10 dives they'll make that week and none for the next 12-24 months. They are often renting gear which is standard to their PADI training and consists of a jacket BC and mediocre reg sets.

It's sub optimal because team diving in these situations require significant training to keep up the skills required for affective team responsibilities. It is easiest to just jump in and rely on the DM and basic training from 10 years ago.

That’s a fairly good point. Maybe I should tailor this discussion to those divers that dive more than once a year during their Key West vacation…

 

[tursiops]

Or you can be a good dive buddy and offer what you know (in an appropriate way and in good faith, not as an egotistical jerk) and see if they are interested in trying something they may not be otherwise aware of.

On a dive trip I carry a handful of little yellow silicone octo keepers. When I see an octo floating around, when we get back on the boat, I offer one to the person. They always know it should not have been floating about, but were unaware that it was. They thank me, I hitch them up, problem solved. You are suggesting I should tell them they need a 7 ft primary so their octo won't be floating around? Right. Get over yourself.

 

[Zach The Diver]

On a dive trip I carry a handful of little yellow silicone octo keeps. When I see an octo floating around, when we get back on the boat, I offer one to the person. They always know it should not have been floating about, but were unaware that it was. they thank me, I hitch them up, problem solved. You are suggesting I should tell them they need a 7 ft primary so their Oct won't be floating around? Right. Get over yourself.

It’s obviously situationally dependent. Not a “this or that” argument that you’re attempting to derail and turn it into.

I’m not going to hamper someone’s vacation by going on a monologue during the surface interval about the superiority of my single weave harness.

If someone asks about “what gear do you think is best” or if the conversation organically goes in that direction, then an open discussion about it can be had.

Get over this image you have in your head of the circa-2000 ego-driven loudmouth. No one is here to insult your jacket.

 

[Zach The Diver]

On a dive trip I carry a handful of little yellow silicone octo keeps. When I see an octo floating around, when we get back on the boat, I offer one to the person. They always know it should not have been floating about, but were unaware that it was. They thank me, I hitch them up, problem solved. You are suggesting I should tell them they need a 7 ft primary so their octo won't be floating around? Right. Get over yourself.

And no, I’d argue that OW ought to be a taught in a long hose from the get-go. More commenting on the dive industry in general and less on individual divers.

 

[tursiops]

Get over this image you have in your head of the circa-2000 ego-driven loudmouth.

So I should just ignore the current loudmouths? (I do, by the way...)

No one is here to insult your jacket.

My single-weave harness and Freedom plate thank you for your permission to keep wearing them.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I remember the DIR wars very well. There is a board (diver.net) that was the west coast go to dive message board at the time. Mike Kane, Johnny Walker, and a few more were the west coast version of GI3.
The very first post about it was very strange the way they fakely introduced the whole DIR concept with a troll post about somebody threatening that these guys better not show up at some certain beach to do some demo, yada yada. It was an inside joke post to pique interest. Then the shock and awe campaign started. I remember a lot of people really got put off by the assault. It was very childish I thought, and even culminated a time later with 25 or so DIR proponents named in a big lawsuit by PADI for slander and libel. It got ugly! Lawyers, hush hush, at least we got a break.
They had a hell of a time cleaning all that mess up and it took years for them to try and clear the air of the stench they created. I’m not sure they ever did judging by some of the posts in this thread.
It could have been presented so much better and they could have had so much better results if they just picked the right people to sell the system in an adult and friendly manner. Just be friendly! Let people like you, that’s all you have do. Don’t be an a$$hole. You can never take back a first impression.
Another lesson learned, don’t drink and post, which what so many of them did.
Interesting thing now, almost all of them that were right in the middle of it all quit diving.
One guy, that is one of my best friends who lives in Socal was a DIR guy but got out of it and just dives regular now. Well not completely regular, he uses one of my plates, but it’s not DIR compliant either.
I have studied DIR in depth and have known many DIR guys, even dived with them. I have many ideas why it probably never has and never will go much beyond where it is now, and the caving world in Florida, where it probably should have stayed. Most of it is equipment related, and also cost and access related.
Not so much attitude related like in the “olden” days.
No, DIR is not good for ALL diving and it’s not going take over the world, that’s fake news. Don’t believe Dan. PARTS of DIR are good for all diving, so the wholistic approach kind of falls apart there.

 

[Cthippo]

Buddies

This is really the big one for me.

Some stuff that DIR/GUE does makes sense to me and I have adopted it (BPW, primary donate, necklaced backup reg).

Some stuff (must be a light with a certain kind of handle and we are going to communicate via light signals) makes sense in the context of what they are doing, i.e. cave diving.

Some things (drysuits and doubles for most dives, helium past 100', etc) are either overly cautious or just not relevant to my world, and that's OK.

The one I absolutely cannot get on board with is team diving. To me, diving has always and will always be a solo activity. Yeah, I might go dive with someone else, but I expect them to be 100% responsibile for their own safety and likewise do not include them in my own contingency planning. If we get seperated then I'll see you back on the boat. Spending half my tile trying to keepntrack of another diver in water with 5' visibility is not my idea of fun, and I am doing this to have fun.

Generally, all this would fall under the category of "Dive and let dive". To me, GUE/DIR is kind of like the hardcore vintage divers. Cool, you are doing something different and a bit strange from my perspective, but hey, more power to you. The difference is that I have never had a vintage diver claim that theirs is the only proper way to dive or tell someone that using modern gear will kill them, or, despute having never met someone, that their buoyencynand trim are not good enough. I don't care if you are perfect, that attitude only breeds resentment from the rest of us who are perfectly happy just being good enough to pursue the hobbynwe enjoy.

 

[lowwall]

I am curious as to what you are specifically thinking about when you reference sub-optimal in warm water recreational diving?

Horizontal on safety stops.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Horizontal on safety stops.

Is there any research that supports this?