Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[NothingClever]

Good gravy, we’re a sensitive bunch.

 

[johndiver999]

Which leads us to point two. The DIR approach is optimized for a specific set of diving tasks. While you can certainly try to apply the same approach outside those tasks, for example for warm water recreational diving, it is not always practical to do so and may even be suboptimal. Advice given without acknowledging this is likely to be dismissed as aloof or elitist because it is.

I am curious as to what you are specifically thinking about when you reference sub-optimal in warm water recreational diving?

 

[Boarderguy]

I am curious as to what you are specifically thinking about when you reference sub-optimal in warm water recreational diving?

Team diving is unnecessary and often distracting to those who want to look at pretty fish and float along a reef. No need for long hose, 10 ft stops, gas switch verification, or standard kits to do that.

 

[johndiver999]

Team diving is unnecessary and often distracting to those who want to look at pretty fish and float along a reef. No need for long hose, 10 ft stops, gas switch verification, or standard kits to do that.

Perhaps the long hose is sub-optimal since it is unnecessary in some situations, gas switch verifications wouldn't come up if you weren't switching gases (so that aspect is irrelevant rather than sub-optimal) and perhaps I am ignorant of the full meaning of team diving, but I don't see anything in that regard which is sub-optimal?

Similarly, the applicability of 10-ft stops would seem to be mostly unrelated to water temperature, so I don't see that as a "warm water recreational" issue either?

As for the need for everyone to dive a standard kit, I would not argue that this type of conformity is needed for a typical recreational dive, but on the other hand, I might say that this restriction is inconvenient rather than "sub-optimal".

I am most interested in hearing about DIR "things" that are felt to be sub-optimal.

 

[Boarderguy]

Perhaps the long hose is sub-optimal since it is unnecessary in some situations, gas switch verifications wouldn't come up if you weren't switching gases (so that aspect is irrelevant rather than sub-optimal) and perhaps I am ignorant of the full meaning of team diving, but I don't see anything in that regard which is sub-optimal?

Similarly, the applicability of 10-ft stops would seem to be mostly unrelated to water temperature, so I don't see that as a "warm water recreational" issue either?

As for the need for everyone to dive a standard kit, I would not argue that this type of conformity is needed for a typical recreational dive, but on the other hand, I might say that this restriction might be inconvenient rather than "sub-optimal".

I am most interested in hearing about DIR "things" that are felt to be sub-optimal.

Let's cover this nicely as I don't need another thread ban on the books...

It is sub optimal because it requires a significant investment on the part of operators and divers to be in similar configurations.

The "warm water" comment isn't about the water temp, but about the destination. These are often vacation divers who are only interested in seeing pretty fish for the 5-10 dives they'll make that week and none for the next 12-24 months. They are often renting gear which is standard to their PADI training and consists of a jacket BC and mediocre reg sets.

It's sub optimal because team diving in these situations require significant training to keep up the skills required for affective team responsibilities. It is easiest to just jump in and rely on the DM and basic training from 10 years ago.

 

[Mod63]

I am curious as to what you are specifically thinking about when you reference sub-optimal in warm water recreational diving?

Continous webbing and non-ditchable weight come to my mind. It make the live of the poor guy hauling your tank into the Zodiak so much easier if it is a couple of kilos lighter. And for your average rec diver it's far easier to get out of the BCD if there is a buckle to open.

 

[boulderjohn]

A lot of the animosity goes back to the George Irving days and if you dive with Strokes you better have a body bag in your kit.

I think a lot of that history is still relevant. Some of it is probably not well known.

DIR veterans know the old video featuring GI3 and two buddies talking about DIR. One of those two buddies was Dan Volker, who was a prominent figure on ScubaBoard before finally being banned. Dan once explained that he was specifically given the task of promoting DIR principles in the recreational diving community. He published a number of articles in DIR circles telling DIR graduates how to do that. In one memorable article I recall vividly, he told DIR divers that if they were ever "stuck" diving with non-DIR divers, they should take the opportunity to explain the superiority of their equipment and methods. Some of those articles can still be found on DIR-friendly sites.

Dan had (and still has) a particular strategy for arguing a point. I wrote to him privately about it, suggesting it was not the best way to make a point. He disagreed, making it clear that what I was seeing him doing was very intentional on his part. His strategy was to grossly exaggerate the benefits of his side of an argument and grossly exaggerate the defects of the opposing side. That's why we have the "You're gonna die!" cliché.

As an example, well after the DIR wars, Dan was hired to promote heated vests to put under wetsuits. That meant telling people not to use drysuits. In his articles, he said that unless a drysuit diver had been trained through GUE, they would nearly invariably die because their feet would inflate and take them in an uncontrolled upside down ascent. He claimed that huge numbers of drysuit divers were dying while dangling upside down from the surface of the water.

Similarly, the applicability of 10-ft stops would seem to be mostly unrelated to water temperature, so I don't see that as a "warm water recreational" issue either

While researching for a planned (and abandoned) article on the use of deep stops in recreational diving, I contacted GUE headquarters to ask why they did this. I was given a clear and authoritative explanation. (I still have it if people want quotes.)

The general theory behind is simple--they believe the ascent rate should be slower during the shallower point of the ascent. That's it. That's all the deco theory behind it.

So why all the other details?

1. They start at half the depth not for any deep stop reason--it is because any idiot can calculate a half.
2. Doing a series of stops slows the ascent considerably.
3. Doing a series of stops is consistent with the way a decompression dive is done, so they are being consistent with their ascents for all dives, NDL or decompression.

There is no underlying belief that doing a series of stops during an NDL dive provides any benefit to the diver other than slowing the ascent. It is just a matter of being consistent with deco diving.

 

[chrisjur]

I like many of the concepts that DIR embraces, although most of those I follow come from my tec diving path, not necessarily from GUE or any other DIR philosophy.

But in diving and in many other aspects of life, I'm very weary of any situation in which someone immediately insists that there's only one way to do something. I generally like to review all options, try things out myself, assess the various risks, and find the best method for me. That is the "right" way to do it in my book. Your mileage may vary.

Diving is an incredibly safe and enjoyable global sport. I'd argue that the number of divers around the world following true DIR principles is minuscule—almost statistically zero. If you love DIR, embrace it and run with it. But we've been able to come this far without everyone doing it the "Right" way, and things have worked out just fine.

 

[johndiver999]

Continous webbing and non-ditchable weight come to my mind. It make the live of the poor guy hauling your tank into the Zodiak so much easier if it is a couple of kilos lighter. And for your average rec diver it's far easier to get out of the BCD if there is a buckle to open.

I'm not a DIR advocate, in fact my recent attempt at humor in the "DIR Zone" got deleted when I basically indicated that woven hoses for air2 inflators are optimal... some people have zero sense of humor - but on the other hand, I am genuinely interested in learning a better way to dive.

I often dive solo, with a pony bottle, an air 2, on air and way too deep for DIR, but I do recognize the benefits of a lot of their stuff. I have a few ideas about what might be suboptimal, but I am interested in what others think.

As far as I know DIR allows or even promotes the use of non-integrated weights (like weight belts) when applicable? As for all that continuous harness crap- I definitely find that uncomfortable and therefore not a good choice for me, but this harness mandate/advice is not limited to DIR alone.

 

[Mod63]

Back in the day we was told that weight belts are bad because you have to re-adjust them or they slip or they are to tight and weight pockets always fall out - that's why everybody disliked those zealously promoting DIR.