ASRS -- is there a SCUBA equivalent?

[mk-ultra]

I realize there are several organizations that try to compile SCUBA incident and accident investigation data... but are there any organizations that work like NASA's ASRS system? ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System

The ASRS model is pretty unique... and is geared towards making improvements instead of placing blame. As a matter-of-fact, reporting unsafe conditions through ASRS grants some level of immunity from liability... thus encouraging reporting.

Is there anything similar in the SCUBA community?

 

[DandyDon]

The only one I know is DAN's annual Accident Report, and it simply compiles info given to them - often lacking. One high profile case with two deaths in Roatan was listed only as 1 US death, 1 local death, perhaps because information was withheld even tho the resort vowed to provide full disclosure on the accident - before it changed and withdrew information it had already published on the net.

A resort I'll never touch foot on! The best rumors indicated carbon monoxide poisoning from a faulty compressor, and I have my CO analyzer, but refuse to get involved there.

 

[K_girl]

I met a diver who was at the Roatan resort in 2005 during the time that the two divers died. I believe it was a dive master and a resort customer who died. You are right that the resort has not talked about the incident, but because there may have been a law suit involved, they didn't talk about it. I tried to find the discussion about this on the board, but it happened back in 2005 and it has been removed, so I'm going off memory now.

The diver I talked to who was there that week, said that people saw the dive master go after the resort customer who appeared to be in trouble at about 90 feet. No one saw exactly what happened after that, only that both floated to the surface, drowned. Because there were two people who died at the same time, there was some speculation that the air might be bad. The remaining divers on the boat were quickly taken back to the resort and examined. Operations were shut down for about one day to inspect the air, which were reported to the resort customers to be good and then operations resumed the next day. A few of the customers who witnessed the deaths did feel sickly and others didn't. It's possible that the fact that they witnessed the death of two people caused them to feel nauseated.

Dive masters at the resort had confidence in the air quality. This diver told me that the working dive masters believed the customer panicked and struggled with the dive master which resulted in both of their deaths, but they have no proof, so they couldn't really say anything.

I heard this information about one year after the incident, but never posted.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks K-girl. That's different info that I got from a dive boat skipper who had problems with a compressor there shortly before the incident, but the people who have the hard facts aren't talking. We'll probly never get them out of that country or property.

 

[JonKranhouse]

From the public records of Gibbs v. PADI and CocoView et al:

Gibbs original complaint (PDF, starting page 5, items #14 to # 25 are the alleged events involving carbon monoxide poisoning)

PADI's original response (PDF)

The case settled out of court.
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I think the ASRS system is an excellent model for improving the dive industry. This paradigm would reduce the chance that profit or income motives would quash information that could otherwise make diving safer. There appears to be a conflict of interest within the only existing structure (DAN) to collect and collate accident data.

DAN's for-profit insurance (>$14M in 2008) is obliged to pay for DCS treatments, but we don't read much about divers with DCS problems who have "plateaued?" Many HBO MDs from around the world advocate follow-on chamber treatments to reduce neurological deficits vs. a cap imposed by DAN. Or "marginal symptoms" cited in UHMS research: "many so-called marginal symptoms [of the bends], AKA "niggles," may be related to decompression although not of sufficient severity to warrant therapy." May not be sufficient to warrant therapy?...but what of the long-term possible harms from dive computer algorithms that rely upon only the shortest half-life tissue "compartments," like bone and brain lesions? [1; and 2]

The days of blind faith in self-regulation are ending; Wall Street bankers and peanut growers "get it," but why not the dive industry?! "Regulation!" is decried as the bogeyman by DEMA (whose board of directors won the ending of term-limits). But in reality, there are infinite shades of gray between "unfettered, say whatever I want to make-a-buck" and "don't let the 'Kremlin' dictate my every thought."

An independent reporting mechanism would give conscientious dive pros a way to report safety lapses without fear of harming their careers. Involving some folks from NOAA, NEDU and OSHA to ensure independence would be critical. Not to give bureaucrats power over the industry (no "Nanny" culture, thank you very much), just monitoring ability, as NASA / FAA personnel monitor ASRS.

 

[w42sailor]

I agree with the comments on the NASA's ASRS as a model. It should be a requirement of DMs of every organization to report.

And additionally all Divers could contribute for the Safety of the Sport.

It has to be non punative and even the location and other personal information could be redacted by the recording agency. DAN should be the receiving organization.

A Form that has been approved by all of the certifying agencies.

 

[DandyDon]

I agree with the comments on the NASA's ASRS as a model. It should be a requirement of DMs of every organization to report.

And additionally all Divers could contribute for the Safety of the Sport.

It has to be non punative and even the location and other personal information could be redacted by the recording agency. DAN should be the receiving organization.

A Form that has been approved by all of the certifying agencies.

Hi, and Welcome to SB...!

How are you going to enforce that in Belize, Honduras, Cuba, Columbia, Africa, Asia, Pacific Islands, etc?

It's difficult enough to get them to admit a death, much less do a good study of how it happened and release facts. Bad for business.

Padi and DAN are not going to do anything at all to help.

 

[mk-ultra]

One of the most unique aspects of ASRS is that it is a non-punitive reporting system. Reports are anonymous (NASA only keeps the incident report, and returns the ID portion of the form to you without recording the data). This sounds strange, but there is actually a tangible benefit to reporting.

Submitting a report won't grant you immunity from civil/criminal liability -- but if there is an administrative enforcement action due to the event (i.e., the FAA wants to suspend or revoke your license) you can present the part of the ticket you retained and get limited immunity from some types of administrative actions since you demonstrated you know you made a mistake and cared enough to put it into ASRS so it can be recorded and put to use preventing similar mistakes.

Commercial pilots routinely use ASRS when they make a mistake, as it's not wielded as an enforcement tool. I've filled out a half-dozen or so in 22 years of flying... reporting things like my own boo-boos, ATC boo-boos, unsafe airport conditions, et al.

Perhaps some dive operators may be shy about self-reporting... but anyone who was part of an accident or incident (be it a diver, a hyperbaric physician, search-and-rescue operator, USCG, etc.) could report into the system for the same event.

To see what the form looks like, for those who are curious:

https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/asrs_ers/ASRS_ERS_Form_General_v3a.pdf

 

[flyingron]

The immunity of ASRS is that the report itself can't be used against you.
The so-called "get out of jail free" aspect is a separate FAA program in that they will consider the fact that you made the report in non-intentional, non-accident situations to mitigate the penalties.