Ask A Cop!!! Post Your Questions Here!

[RonDawg]

Folks, although I don't have a dog in this particular fight, I surely would hate to see this thread boil down to a point-counterpoint argument. That said, I realize fully that there are professional pride and civic ethics involved here, so it would be terribly naive and ineffective to just say "Can't we all just get along?"

Wayne,

I too am surprised by how civil this discussion has stayed so far, but I do see some ominous clouds coming in.

As a former moderator of a law enforcement discussion board, one of the things that I have noticed to bring out a lot of passion from non-law enforcers is the whole notion of "professional courtesy." The whole notion of "why should a cop get away with it." Never mind that, as a sum total of all my traffic stops, off-duty cops represent a tiny portion of that, and as I have pointed out above I have given FAR MORE warnings to non-cops than to cops.

Another one is the whole notion of the "blue wall of silence." To which I'd like to point out that this goes on with any profession. Doctors rarely snitch on other doctors. Lawyers rarely snitch on other lawyers. However, unlike those two professions, whose ethics boards are run by those within their own profession, as law enforcers we don't get that kind of courtesy. In many areas, complaints against officers are examined by civilians with no law enforcement experience whatsoever.

Whenever you talk about law enforcement issues, often times this brings out the troublemakers and the trolls; that's why in most law enforcement boards that are open to public participation, there is a "private" area similar to what you find in Scuba Board that is only made up of law enforcers. Part of this is the need to discuss sensitive topics or tactics, things we don't want out in public. But a bigger need is to simply take a break from the trolls.

 

[Wb10005]

Or the all the tools with law degrees.



Before I get off on tagents -- let's just keep our "secrets" to ourselves, just like they do. The elitists who look down upon our choices have NO idea the **** we deal with.

I like it when Ozzie Guillen said that if Bill Gates were to be dropped off in Venezuela, he'd never survive, yet an Ozzie, blue collar type - can survive and prosper in America.

I'd like to take some of our posters for a week in the projects on the South Side of Chicago and drop them off.

Wonder how many stop signs and traffic laws they'd break on their way back to the Gold Coast ??

Be safe all ---

 

[scubapolly]

Great thread TJ. Can't believe it took me until now to find it. I had ever intention of reading all of the posts until i spent 2 hours reading and was still on the first day of posts! So I appoligize if I am re-asking a question.

My question too surrounds DUI laws. Let me first say that I think that our DUI laws are way to lenient, and we really need to start modeling them off of most European countries, but that is a whole other topic.
So I have heard that one of the field sobrity tests that can be administered is to ask the person to say the alphabet backwards. And that this is actually a trick to get someone to self-incriminate with the comment "I can't even do that when I'm sobber". Is this test really used (I actually can say my alphabet backwards quite quickly), and if so is it really designed as a trick?

On a side note, I am a bios teacher and was talking to my students about Nystagmus, and can't remember if you are drunk is there more of a twitch of the eye or less?

Thanks in advance,
Polly

 

[RonDawg]

My question too surrounds DUI laws. Let me first say that I think that our DUI laws are way to lenient, and we really need to start modeling them off of most European countries, but that is a whole other topic.

It's not so much the laws themselves that are lenient, but laws that either hamper the officers' ability to collect samples for later testing, and/or allow defense attorneys ample opportunities to "beat the system."

So I have heard that one of the field sobrity tests that can be administered is to ask the person to say the alphabet backwards. And that this is actually a trick to get someone to self-incriminate with the comment "I can't even do that when I'm sobber". Is this test really used (I actually can say my alphabet backwards quite quickly), and if so is it really designed as a trick?

A common thread of any good field sobriety test is the whole notion of "divided attention." Basically, can you do two things at once? Driving is a constant test of your ability of divided attention (aka "multitasking") and alcohol and drugs hampers that ability.

The alphabet test, while used by some, IMHO isn't that valid a test. While it requires intense concentration, it really doesn't show the ability/inability of "divided attention." Reciting the alphabet backwards while standing on one foot, now that's divided attention

It reminds me of an old Simpsons episode when Homer's goody-two-shoes neighbor is pulled over for reckless driving, after trying to get away from Homer who was chasing them on foot. The officer had him demonstrate THREE of the NHTSA-validated field sobriety tests simultaneously :11doh:

On a side note, I am a bios teacher and was talking to my students about Nystagmus, and can't remember if you are drunk is there more of a twitch of the eye or less?

Nystagmus is more pronounced with increasing levels of intoxication.

 

[RonDawg]

Before I get off on tagents -- let's just keep our "secrets" to ourselves, just like they do. The elitists who look down upon our choices have NO idea the **** we deal with.

Good point WB. Few people who have never done this job have any idea what it's like to have to make split second life and death decisions while under extreme stress. About the only ones who know what it's like are soldiers in combat.

I mention this because earlier in this thread, the incident involving the San Bernardino deputy was mentioned, and specifically mentioned was how could he have ordered the guy to get up and then shoot him? While not defending his actions, I can see exactly how it happens. When under extreme stress, your mind does quite a few surprising things, and a lot of involuntary stuff happens. Yet it's being Monday-morning quarterbacked by those whose most stressful incident is being 15 minutes into their lunch hour and not having yet decided where to go to eat

 

[TJcop]

OK guys, as much as I agree and appreciate the responses, I don't want to get this thread closed. Yes, it's still civil and nice and furry and sweet...but I've seen things change quickly. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program!

 

[TJcop]

Scubapolly: Thanks for the kind words regarding this thread...it's been alot of fun!

No, we don't do the backwards alphabet. In Wisconsin, we have 3 standardized tests: HGN, walk & turn, one leg stand. That's it. Period.

HGN (Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus) has 3 parts to it. First, is nystagmus at maximum deviation (jerkiness when looking all the way left/right), second is nystagmus prior to a 45 degree angle (jerkiness appears when the eyes track out to 45 degrees) and lack of smooth pursuit (the eyes jump as they move horizontaly from left/right).

 

[WaterWayne]

I didn't think I would have another law enforcement question so soon, but as I drove I-35 between Dallas and Austin this weekend with thousands of idiots, err, good Texans, I wondered what could fix the problem of rubber-neckers. Is there an official stance?

In this case, the highway patrol was no busier than a typical good-weather weekend, perhaps half-a-dozen pull-overs in 400 miles (round trip.) However, the rubber-neckers were causing much more danger and distress than anything. Why in the world would anyone need to brake suddenly to 45 or even less from highway speeds (avg. 75?), just to observe a trooper writing a ticket?! It happens with wrecks, too, and I've heard about wrecks directly causing more wrecks in the same stretch because of rubber-neckers.

Anyway, I thought that perhaps law enforcement should start with an education program, TV and print publicity, and then start ticketing folks for obstructing traffic or causing danger or something similar. But then I thought that pulling over folks would cause the same problem that it's trying to address.

Isn't there a solution that somebody could make work, and maybe get "Officer of the Year" or the like?

 

[TJcop]

Wayne:

My suggestion to put cow catchers on the front of squads was, suprisingly, denied.

Oh well, I'm sure we'll come up with something for the rubber neckers.

 

[RonDawg]

I didn't think I would have another law enforcement question so soon, but as I drove I-35 between Dallas and Austin this weekend with thousands of idiots, err, good Texans, I wondered what could fix the problem of rubber-neckers. Is there an official stance?

In this case, the highway patrol was no busier than a typical good-weather weekend, perhaps half-a-dozen pull-overs in 400 miles (round trip.) However, the rubber-neckers were causing much more danger and distress than anything. Why in the world would anyone need to brake suddenly to 45 or even less from highway speeds (avg. 75?), just to observe a trooper writing a ticket?! It happens with wrecks, too, and I've heard about wrecks directly causing more wrecks in the same stretch because of rubber-neckers.

Anyway, I thought that perhaps law enforcement should start with an education program, TV and print publicity, and then start ticketing folks for obstructing traffic or causing danger or something similar. But then I thought that pulling over folks would cause the same problem that it's trying to address.

Isn't there a solution that somebody could make work, and maybe get "Officer of the Year" or the like?

Roadside execution perhaps?

Other than that, there's really not a whole lot you can do, unless they can make "ramming" perfectly legal for civilians too. Everybody knows they shouldn't do it, but they do it anyway. I doubt "education" would work for this.

These are perfect examples of the "impeding" that Bruce loves for us to cite for, but as such scenes we are way too busy to be dealing with that.