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[TJcop]

Is is ever appropriate to fire "warning shots" or is the rule always to shoot to kill?

Warning shots are NEVER appropriate, and we don't "shoot to kill" we shoot to stop that persons actions. Now, death is likely, which is why we call it "deadly force".
In Wisconsin, our deadly force requirement (per the state) is:
When an officer reasonably believes that the actions of a person would result in great bodily harm or death.
Now, the deadly force definition when an officer uses it is:
When the officers actions have a high probability of death.

The small difference is that when the 'bad guy' is going to cause death OR great bodily harm, that is when officers can use deadly force which probably will cause death.

Note, there isn't any mention of warning shots. In fact, my department policy states that 'warning shots' aren't allowed.

 

[BigJetDriver]

I would have to say, categorically, that every department that functions under U.S. law has a rule stating that warning shots are NOT to be fired. Period.

 

[TJcop]

I saw the event I described. The officers were not following a suspect vehicle. I saw that. They were not performing official duties, except to the extent they were in marked cars and presumably on duty. They were only sitting through a full cycle of a long red light. If a civilian did the exact same thing, he or she would have been cited and rightly so.

How do you know that the officers weren't responding to a call. It's pretty routine for us to drive through red lights, stop signs, etc without any emergency equipment on due to certain types of calls. If it upset you that much, why didn't you call the department to complain? When this happens at my department, the supervisor usually informs the "non-assuming" citizen that squads were responding to a hold up alarm, or some other incident that allows for a silent run.

I never assume. I consider only the evidence and those inferences the law says I may draw from it.

Uhh...yes, you did assume. You based your ASSUMPTION on what you saw, not what may have actually happened. Now, it is possible that these officers just plain ole ran the red, but neither you nor I can prove that.

I am really offended by your statement that "We cut each other small breaks," and especially your suggestion that I "[g]et over it." Who cuts civilians small breaks? Cutting each other breaks is one of the things that makes the public lose respect for police officers. Of all people, police officers should follow the traffic laws meticulously because they know them even better than civilians.

Offended? Hmmm...I'm sure that nobody in any other line of work ever cuts co-workers breaks, right? How about the friend of a doctor that gets a prescription, or the parts guy that gives another parts guy a discount or freebies? What about the bartenders buddy that gets a free beer or shot every now and then? It happens everywhere!
Who cuts civilians small breaks you ask? I DO...ALL THE TIME!! In fact, 3 people today that I stopped got breaks. Don't try telling me that I don't give breaks. I give more breaks than tickets and arrests. How about the break I gave to an ER doctor hurrying to the hospital in his personal car? He was breaking the law you know! Or the military officer that was trying to hustle home after being away for a year? Or the mom that was on her way to the emergency room because junior got hurt? Geesh...looks like I'm gonna have to tag more people!

Oh, and you think that we lose respect from the public because of small breaks? I would think that the public would be willing to cut us some slack because of what we do. Oh wait, don't tell me you only like us when you need us, right?

BTW: No one has ever suggested I have liberal tendencies.

Well, at least one person has...

 

[Wb10005]

LOL -- Thanks TJ.

 

[ItsBruce]

The cars I saw didn't run the red. They waited for the left turn arrow. As it turned out, they got stopped by the next red light and I ended up behind them at it. When it turned green, they simply cruised down the street. I lost them after about 8 blocks. No haste, whatsoever. If they were on a call, then they sure were not anxious to get to it.

As to cutting co-workers breaks, there is a difference between cutting someone a break and cutting them a break when they break the law. I'm not even going to get started on my thoughts if a doctor were to give a buddy a perscription for controlled substances for recreational use.

I was not sufficiently offended by the incident until I saw some of the postings here.

Finally, ... So someone called me a liberal. He had better not do it again.

BTW: Has anyone been following the story about the deputy who shot an Air Force airman while the latter was complying with an alleged order to stand up from a seated position? Is that even news outside of SoCal? (It was videotaped with decent sound quality.) For what its worth, the DA filed on him.

 

[Scubatooth]

bruce

it was in the news here locally (dallas) and i really hope that the DA nails the guy as from what im seeing and hearing from local leos who know of the situation that leo was out of line. i really feel sorry for the kid that got shot as his view of law enforcement is probably really messed up now.

FWIW

Tooth

 

[MikeC]

this question isn't near as fun as all the others but I have been in the bank before on at least 2 occasions when a police officer has come in and walked up to the desk to sign a notebook. What is this? Is the officer just checking in? How often do they have to do this? This is in NH so i dont know if this varies nation wide.

I'm not a LEO but I might have a possible answer. Some banks employ off duty officers as security guards, maybe what you saw was the officer checking his schedule and also showing that the police check the banks.

A crook would have to be real stupid to rob a bank while a marked police car is outside and the officer is inside. Yes, it probably has happened, most crooks aren't the brightest people.

 

[TJcop]

Bruce,
First of all, let me clear some things up. I said that the officers may have been responding to a call, based on the original information you posted...now you give us the rest of the story of the 2nd set of lights and the squad stopping and waiting. That might have been useful info the first time around. But, that still doesn't prove that they weren't enroute to a call, then cancelled. Again, they may have been a couple of jags and just blew the light (not cool).

In regards to the doctor example...I never said anything about recreational use (like oxycotin, codine, etc..), I was referring to actual medical uses for drugs, but instead of going to a doctor visit, checkup, etc like everyone else, the person just goes to his buddy Doc that goes "sure, no problem".

You also failed to comment on the breaks I give citizens...you know, the breaks you say that officers don't give.

The deputy that shot the airman...yes I'm aware of it, and I don't like to hear about things like that. We're not perfect, and even some are criminals.

 

[TJcop]

I just want everyone to know that my little rants are not what I intended for this thread. Bruce, the things I said are not to be taken personally, but I get upset when people say/write the things like you did. Most of the time they are under-informed, so I try to clear things up. Try, that is...

Anyways, let's get back to the questions and have some fun!

 

[WasWild]

Any cops' wives out there, besides me? If so, we should start an "ask a cop's wife" thread...just kidding...