Ascent using alternate air on inflator hose

[RonFrank]

On my Ranger, if you need to dump air when using the octo+, you just pull on the inflator hose. Don't rip it out of the BCD, but a slight pull will dump air.

I think many BCD's have this as my buddy's Seaquest works this way as well even if he does not have the octo+ setuip.

 

[OE2X]

Like JFoster said, if the QD failed (not likely), and disconnect/reconnect didn't solve the problem, I would abort the dive either way. None of my dives are so important that I will risk minor failures adding up to a catastrophe.

Have you never manually inflated your bcd underwater?
When I first started diving that was the only way to do it. While I believe in the Murphy principle of diving I don't see disconnecting the inflator hose to a bcd as being necessary to thumbing the dive. Most of my diving is in a drysuit ie... backup bcd. Even still if it happened on the way up - then disconnect and continue with the dive.

 

[RonFrank]

Tugging on the inflator/AirII hose isn't advisable.

Actually, it's no issue whatsoever.. ASSUMING that one is aware of the dump valve, and has done some practice. One is not yanking on the low pressure hose.

What happens if your quick disconect on your AirII develops a leak?
Dive over. If it happens on your inflator? Disconect and continue your dive.

That is a good point, and I've considering getting a *second* octo just for additional safety, but not sure how often if ever I'd use it diving a single tank.

My advice:
Most experienced divers frown upon them as poor choices for good reason. Include me into that group.

The LDS I use has 10 Master Instructors (two are course dirs). Every one I have dived with (about five of them) use AirII for non-tech diving. I've not met one that has less than 1000 dives, and I think most are in the 5000 dive range.

 

[OE2X]

Ron,
What is the advantage to ascending vertically in OOA situation?
With your configuration you will have to do so.

Referencing the DM's:
I've seen plenty of instructors that have 1000 or more dives that rear mount pony bottles, use spare air and silt out the bottom. The number of dives does not necessarily make a good diver.

There is a member on this board who I've dove with that now has 21 dives. He is very quickly becoming an excellent diver. By the time he has 100 dives he will likely be a better than most of the DM's or average instructors that I've met with vastly more dives.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Ron,
What is the advantage to ascending vertically in OOA situation?
With your configuration you will have to do so.

I'm not Ron, but this brings up an issue I would like to discuss. I guess it's a little bit of a hijack, since it's not necessarily an AirII issue, but here goes.

Ascending horizontally gives better speed control, right? But how do you see what you’re getting into (setting aside, for a moment, UP’s inverted horizontal ascent technique...)? I guess you could crane your neck while doing a helicopter turn on the way up...

Ascending vertically allows you to see above you in all directions for things like kelp, jetskis, etc., right?

Without further persuasion, I think I'll stick with vertical.

 

[DiveGolfSki]

I was just wondering if anyone else out there has made an ascent using alt on inflator hose. I had something happen last summer and it really scared me. I was diving in the local quarry of which i have spent alot of time. I made my descent to 60feet. Once there i developed a free flow in my seconday. So i switched to alt. But since i had never done this before my ascent was to fast. I kept grabbing for my inflator hose to dump air :11: . Well it was not there. It was in my mouth. I was wondering if this has ever happend to anyone. And to let those who have alt on inflator hose to practice it before this happens. I was lucky. Did not have any problems.

I, for one, agree with DryGlove and have gone to a long house for my primary reg and a short hose for my backup reg. My inflator is purely for bouyancy control but ... in a pinch ... it's a third backup.

You mentioned that you developed a free flow in your secondary. I belive that means your primary regulator (secondary stage ... I suppose?) since you have the inflator/octopus set up. Did you try turning your reg upside down? This usually stops a free flowing reg.

In any event, you are right that practicing using your inflator/octo would be wise procedure. It's part of a good diving regiment (practicing basic OOA, BC control, etc.) to sharpen your skilss .... whether you're a boy or girl.

 

[OE2X]

I'm not Ron, but this brings up an issue I would like to discuss. I guess it's a little bit of a hijack, since it's not necessarily an AirII issue, but here goes.

Ascending horizontally gives better speed control, right? But how do you see what you’re getting into (setting aside, for a moment, UP’s inverted horizontal ascent technique...)? I guess you could crane your neck while doing a helicopter turn on the way up...

Ascending vertically allows you to see above you in all directions for things like kelp, jetskis, etc., right?

Without further persuasion, I think I'll stick with vertical.

Outside of a sailboat you will be able to hear a surface craft like a jet ski. Also if you are doing an open water ascent not near a boat and you are concerned with activity above you then blow a SMB. I find rolling on my side works well for looking up to the surface.

I can appreciate you wanting to see the surface. I spent many years ascending vertically and spinning. That's what I was taught in my OW class years ago.

When I started diving with Uncle Pug I copied the supine ascent or at least during my 15' stop rolling over on my back. It's a great way to spend the 3 minutes looking at the waves on the surface. Heck a shore dive I did last week was spent supine while swiming the 100 or so yards (at 15') to the takeout beach. It was cool to watch the city lights playing on the surface.

In an OOA ascent though I will stay horizontal. When I need to look at the surface I'll roll on my side. I won't do this until the 15' stop unless I hear boat traffic. What I really want to look at is my buddy who is sharing my air and to be able to precisely control our ascent.

Want to make it an OOA drill really fun? Have the donor lose their mask and then do all your stops in a free ascent. Personally I haven't got this one down yet.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm not Ron, but this brings up an issue I would like to discuss. I guess it's a little bit of a hijack, since it's not necessarily an AirII issue, but here goes.

Ascending horizontally gives better speed control, right?

Not just better speed control but also better control of movement in all directions...up, down, left, right and any combination. If I need to move forward to get to a buddy, I just give my fins a flip and I'm there. If you're vertical you need to first get horizontal. If I'm drifting too close, I give a little backwards frog to back away. If you're vertical...I'm not sure what you do. LOL

But how do you see what you’re getting into (setting aside, for a moment, UP’s inverted horizontal ascent technique...)? I guess you could crane your neck while doing a helicopter turn on the way up...

Ascending vertically allows you to see above you in all directions for things like kelp, jetskis, etc., right?

Without further persuasion, I think I'll stick with vertical.

First off when you're down deep there isn't much of a need to look up is there. As you get shallower you can look up just like you can turn to look behind you right now, you're buddy can see above you and you can see above your buddy and of course if you really feel the need to have a 360 view above you as you approach the surface you can go vertical. Through the rest of the ascent though it's your buddy you need to be watching and have the ability to get to in a hurry...not looking up.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Outside of a sailboat you will be able to hear a surface craft like a jet ski. Also if you are doing an open water ascent not near a boat and you are concerned with activity above you then blow a SMB. I find rolling on my side works well for looking up to the surface.

A large percentage of my dives have been in lakes, where I have (so far) had the luxury of ascending under a float with a flag. But, as you know, sound travels very well underwater, and just because I can hear a boat doesn’t necessarily tell me if it’s a danger. I still want to be on the lookout.

But sound aside, it would be a bummer to ascend into a cloud of jellyfish or an old fishing net that happens to be floating by.

I’ve also had the privilege of diving kelp forests. Definitely want to see where I’m going there.

What I really want to look at is my buddy who is sharing my air...

How does being horizontal help you watch your buddy? Looking at something in front of you is much easier and more natural than looking at something above you, right? I mean, my head only tilts back so far, and a mask limits your visibility somewhat. Still seems to me that it’s much easier to keep an eye on your buddy if you are facing each other.

and to be able to precisely control our ascent.

The reasoning is that horizontal presents more surface area in the direction of movement, right? But it takes precise buoyancy control to control your speed.

Ascending vertically, you can be slightly negative and easily control your rate with a little leisurely fining.

Seems to me that a vertical ascent is much easier to control. What am I missing?

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Not just better speed control but also better control of movement in all directions...up, down, left, right and any combination. If I need to move forward to get to a buddy, I just give my fins a flip and I'm there. If you're vertical you need to first get horizontal. If I'm drifting too close, I give a little backwards frog to back away. If you're vertical...I'm not sure what you do. LOL

Thanks for the clarification, Mike. I can see how you would have more immediate horizontal mobility, but I was thinking along the lines of an ascent after an OOA emergency (nature of the thread), in which case I'll be holding onto my buddy, and not need to move to them.

WRT buddy-watching on a normal ascent, I still think that the greater range of vision provided by vertical is more important to me than the quicker mobility of being horizontal. Getting to my buddy would be the same ascending horizontally as if we were both cruising along the bottom. I mean, after all, the mobility is the same, only the attitude is different.

First off when you're down deep there isn't much of a need to look up is there. //snip// Through the rest of the ascent though it's your buddy you need to be watching and have the ability to get to in a hurry...not looking up.

I think I explained my reasoning in my response above. I always want the maximum visibility in the direction I am moving. Guess we can agree to disagree on this one.