Ascent using alternate air on inflator hose

[OE2X]

But sound aside, it would be a bummer to ascend into a cloud of jellyfish or an old fishing net that happens to be floating by.

In all the saltwater dives I've done I haven't seen a fishing net floating by. I have seen them stuck on the bottom though.

How does being horizontal help you watch your buddy? Looking at something in front of you is much easier and more natural than looking at something above you, right? I mean, my head only tilts back so far, and a mask limits your visibility somewhat. Still seems to me that it’s much easier to keep an eye on your buddy if you are facing each other.

We do our best when doing an air share or blowing a bag to position ourselves a few feet in front of our buddy. If the buddy needs something then as Mike F suscinctly stated they are just a fin kick away. If the space narrows then a reverse frog kick is in order. Putting your buddy to one side also works if you have to swim to an UP line.

The reasoning is that horizontal presents more surface area in the direction of movement, right? But it takes precise buoyancy control to control your speed.

Ascending vertically, you can be slightly negative and easily control your rate with a little leisurely fining.

Seems to me that a vertical ascent is much easier to control. What am I missing?

All excellent questions. I understand how you feel that by being vertical all you have to do is kick up or sink down. Now envision where you don't have to do either. Where you can hold your stop just by breath control. If you are vertical you will yoyo alot more. The idea is to stay at the same depth to facilitate off gassing. If you are doing this in an OOA then you want to stay right with your buddy. This is particularly true if they or you are not on a long hose. (The long hose will give you even more depth flexibility - not that it's desired).
There are times when in an OOA that some distance is advised. Panic for one. Deploying a bag is another. The last thing you want is for your buddy to become entangled in the line. If you are facing each other and few feet away, you can instantly tell if your buddy is tangled. You can then move in take care of the situation.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

In all the saltwater dives I've done I haven't seen a fishing net floating by. I have seen them stuck on the bottom though.

Yeah, even on my first OW cert dive we had the privelege of removing some that was tightly wrapped around a sponge.

I could give other examples of over-head dangers, but I'm sure you got my point.

We do our best when doing an air share or blowing a bag to position ourselves a few feet in front of our buddy.

I have an SMB, but just for surface use at this time. However, I am curious as to why it's better to blow a bag when horizontal? Seems to me that if you are vertical it would be easier to hold the bag and line farther from you, so less chance of getting tangled in it. It's much easier and more natural to hold something that you are working with in front of you. Natural instinct when you are focusing on a task is to move whatever you are working with in front of you, which, if you are horizontal, would be below you.

All excellent questions. I understand how you feel that by being vertical all you have to do is kick up or sink down. Now envision where you don't have to do either. Where you can hold your stop just by breath control.

Actually, I can hold my depth with breath control. But I'm sure you didn't mean to be condescending. I can appreciate the advantages of being horizontal at stops, but my arguements have been strictly wrt speed control while moving. In that case, I still believe that it's much easier to control the ascent speed while vertical/negative/fining. But thanks for explaining your perspective. Maybe we should agree to disagree here?

There are times when in an OOA that some distance is advised. Panic for one. Deploying a bag is another. The last thing you want is for your buddy to become entangled in the line. If you are facing each other and few feet away, you can instantly tell if your buddy is tangled. You can then move in take care of the situation.

I guess that partially answers my question above. Actually, your above statement is a good justification for a pony, but I'll save that for another hijack... J/K

 

[OE2X]

I have an SMB, but just for surface use at this time. However, I am curious as to why it's better to blow a bag when horizontal? Seems to me that if you are vertical it would be easier to hold the bag and line farther from you, so less chance of getting tangled in it. It's much easier and more natural to hold something that you are working with in front of you. Natural instinct when you are focusing on a task is to move whatever you are working with in front of you, which, if you are horizontal, would be below you.

Not sure why you think that it would below you if you are horizontal. I guess it's slightly below head level, but still out in front of you. When you see pictures of the guys with their hands clasped in front of them that is more or less where you deploy your bag when horizontal.

Actually, I can hold my depth with breath control. But I'm sure you didn't mean to be condescending. I can appreciate the advantages of being horizontal at stops, but my arguements have been strictly wrt speed control while moving. In that case, I still believe that it's much easier to control the ascent speed while vertical/negative/fining. But thanks for explaining your perspective. Maybe we should agree to disagree here?

Agreed to each their own.
Sorry. My intent was not to come across as condescending in any fashion. I was thinking of others that I've seen holding onto an unmoving anchor line. They tend to bob up and down. Sorry to lump you into that category.

FWIW when not doing an air share or drill I prefer to be supine on my stops. All my buddies think I loony. Personally I think they are jealous.

I guess that partially answers my question above. Actually, your above statement is a good justification for a pony... j/k.

That's a different can of worms and we have both been around this board long enough to know not to beat that horse.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Not sure why you think that it would below you if you are horizontal. I guess it's slightly below head level, but still out in front of you. When you see pictures of the guys with their hands clasped in front of them that is more or less where you deploy your bag when horizontal.

Yeah, I'm picturing 'those' guys and the ones on the video's I've watched.

Maybe I could of explained that better. I'll giver 'er a shot...

Translate the task to dry land. Trying to perform any task above eye-level is awkward.

Plus, when focused on a task at eye-level, you’re natural tendency is to pull it lower and ‘hunch’ over it. Remember back when you were working out the solution to the bottom corners on the Rubic’s cube?

Now, let’s go diving (I wish). If you are blowing an SMB while vertical, you have it at a natural working level, and as far from your body as possible (arms length).

Blowing an SMB while horizontal is equivalent to holding it above your head (or, at least above eye-level), with the added difficulty of a mask limiting your vision. And due to the way our bodies are built, ‘arms length’ is not as far away from your body (head) as if you were vertical (chest). Since I couldn’t get you on the pony thing, I’ll throw in that the line is more likely to snag on your snorkel. (Sorry, just trying for a little levity.)

Now, should anything go slightly wrong, (say, the lines is tangled or you get in an argument with the bolt-snap) your natural instinct is to ‘hunch’ over it. If you are vertical this instinct draws it closer you your body, which would be bad enough, but if you are horizontal this instinct draws it underneath you.

In both cases I can see that you would have to be very careful not to get any part of your body/gear ‘above’ the SMB, it just seems to me that vertical would be much easier and safer.

I appreciate this exchange. I mentioned earlier that I have an SMB for surface use. The reason it’s for surface use at this time is that I haven’t learned to deploy it from depth. This exchange will help me decide the best way to deploy it.

Addited: I just realized that from my reasoning, supine would be the best attitude from which to shoot a bag!

 

[scubamurray]

I was just wondering if anyone else out there has made an ascent using alt on inflator hose. I had something happen last summer and it really scared me. I was diving in the local quarry of which i have spent alot of time. I made my descent to 60feet. Once there i developed a free flow in my seconday. So i switched to alt. But since i had never done this before my ascent was to fast. I kept grabbing for my inflator hose to dump air :11: . Well it was not there. It was in my mouth. I was wondering if this has ever happend to anyone. And to let those who have alt on inflator hose to practice it before this happens. I was lucky. Did not have any problems.

You still can pull down on the dump even though the air2 is in your mouth. The air2 is connected to your BCD with a dump hose the same on any BCD without an air2. Just hold on to the hose and pull while holding the regulator in your mouth if that makes you more comfortable. You should practice dumping with your rear lower dump as well.

Switching to your air 2 has nothing to do with your fast ascent. It is a scary feeling and have myself done that with a rental dry suit many years ago on a Northeast dive boat. Needless to say I couldn't go back in the water for another dive. Just arch out and expell air, what else can you do? I'm glad you were ok.

 

[Big Mike]

Years ago when I went from guages to hoseless integrated computer, I also went with Air2. It was GREAT having less hoses. PROBLEM was that since I travel/dive by myself alot, I always had to have an equipment review with the buddy I got paired up with on the dive boat. "If you have an OOA situation, signal me & I will donate the reg from my mouth & I will use my Air2." This became a chore when I was paired up with several divers a day for a week at a time. Also, I ran into a language barrier several times & didn't know if they understood what I was telling them. I ended up ADDING BACK BOTH MY GUAGES and standard OCTO. Now I have a back-up for everything, as well as a more "traditional" gear configuration.


Mike

 

[carini]

scubamurray thank you for the advice. I think i will be practicing this the next time i get back in the water. Also i may get a standard OCTO as well than will also have back up . (thank you Big Mike) I have learned much form everyone's input Thankyou all carini

 

[Pat!]

I was just wondering if anyone else out there has made an ascent using alt on inflator hose. I had something happen last summer and it really scared me. I was diving in the local quarry of which i have spent alot of time. I made my descent to 60feet. Once there i developed a free flow in my seconday. So i switched to alt. But since i had never done this before my ascent was to fast. I kept grabbing for my inflator hose to dump air :11: . Well it was not there. It was in my mouth. I was wondering if this has ever happend to anyone. And to let those who have alt on inflator hose to practice it before this happens. I was lucky. Did not have any problems.

That is something I will consider when buying my new gear. I though it could be nice to have one less hose with that system, but making an emergency acent with it might be too much for me, being newly certified..

 

[JustinW]

That is something I will consider when buying my new gear. I though it could be nice to have one less hose with that system, but making an emergency acent with it might be too much for me, being newly certified..

Pat, I was trained on an AIR2, as were other people who posted on this board. an OOA emergency is no harder with an AIR2, and as I suggested, its easier, because you have great muscle memory recall to the AIR2, because you use it dozens of times per dive as a dump/inflator/alternate air source. Also these are most common on Scubapro BC's that have a dump on the right shoulder also.

You tell me how quickly you will be able to deploy your octo, that is wrapped up with the mouthpiece stuffed in a retainer. Don't fool yourself thinking its faster than the AIR2 thats already in your hand and ready to deploy instantly.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Pat, I was trained on an AIR2, as were other people who posted on this board. an OOA emergency is no harder with an AIR2, and as I suggested, its easier, because you have great muscle memory recall to the AIR2, because you use it dozens of times per dive as a dump/inflator/alternate air source. Also these are most common on Scubapro BC's that have a dump on the right shoulder also.

You tell me how quickly you will be able to deploy your octo, that is wrapped up with the mouthpiece stuffed in a retainer. Don't fool yourself thinking its faster than the AIR2 thats already in your hand and ready to deploy instantly.

I wear my backup on a necklace under my chin and I can get it in my mouth pretty quick and easy. Then when doing a shared air ascent I'm using all the rest of my equipment the same as I always do. I don't want to have to do basic things different in an emergency further complicating things.

The trouble I've seen people have using an air 2 in a real OOA is they floundered looking for their inflator/deflator because it wasn't were it usually is but in their mouth. BTW, the person I saw have that problem was a DM who I know for a fact practiced with the thing. They started sharing air at a safety stop and had plenty of time to think about their ascent and from 15 or 20 ft it was too fast and I got to watch the confused look on his face while his left hand searched all over for the deflator that was in his mouth. LOL Inflators belong in your hand not in your mouth.

I hear of all the shoulder pull dumps some people like to have all over their bc but every dump is another hole in the bladder and the less the better as far as I'm concerned. I use a bladder with one lower left pull dump and the normal inflator.

I also like a short inflator hose (as apposed to some you see that look like they hang down like three feet. That would probably limit head movement whicg my necklaced backup on a short hose doesn't do.

So...to use one of these things divers use "too long" inflator hoses, extra pull dumps and different ascent procedures than they normally do? Seems like a big mess for nothing to me.