Ascent using alternate air on inflator hose

[Pat!]

Pat, I was trained on an AIR2, as were other people who posted on this board. an OOA emergency is no harder with an AIR2, and as I suggested, its easier, because you have great muscle memory recall to the AIR2, because you use it dozens of times per dive as a dump/inflator/alternate air source. Also these are most common on Scubapro BC's that have a dump on the right shoulder also.

You tell me how quickly you will be able to deploy your octo, that is wrapped up with the mouthpiece stuffed in a retainer. Don't fool yourself thinking its faster than the AIR2 thats already in your hand and ready to deploy instantly.

It is not that I care about not locate my second octo rather that the AIR2, but how comfortable I could be using it. On my last certif. dive, at the end, when we were in shallow water, I ask my instructor to experience some OOA experience. I learned that, even if air quit, it do not mean instant trouble. I had some time to act. I just have to do the right thing, and that, that come with training. My octo was within easy reach and I did not had any problem to locate it on me. What I feel unsecure, is that having been trained with a normal dump/inflator and secondary octo, i'm use to that way. And hearing that other POV about the AIR2, which I thought it could be nice to have to have less hoses in my way, might be problematic for me at first, as I have to perfect everything that I learned on my training.

Maybe after some dives and when due for equipement renewal, I might consider it then, but for now, I will get was I've been trained with.

 

[OE2X]

In an earlier post on this thread I called a hypothetical Ebay buyer of an AirII an unsuspecting sod. It was not my intent to infer that all AirII users are sods. I do believe that there are better and safer systems on the market though. Eliminating one hose is not enough justification to embrace this device.

Another point that I would like to address is that it is o.k. to disagree with a moderator when they have posted in a thread. Another member and I have actively debated our views (in this thread) without any hard feelings or condemnation of each other. When a mod posts as I have in this thread our moderating powers are cancelled. We are effectively no different than anyone else. We have to abide by the same rules as everyone else. I do apologize to anyone who was irritated by my negative inference. FWIW - for me S.O.D. is now a new acronym meaning "Seriously Old Diver" which I'm starting to resemble.

 

[OE2X]

I wear my backup on a necklace under my chin and I can get it in my mouth pretty quick and easy. Then when doing a shared air ascent I'm using all the rest of my equipment the same as I always do. I don't want to have to do basic things different in an emergency further complicating things.

The trouble I've seen people have using an air 2 in a real OOA is they floundered looking for their inflator/deflator because it wasn't were it usually is but in their mouth. BTW, the person I saw have that problem was a DM who I know for a fact practiced with the thing. They started sharing air at a safety stop and had plenty of time to think about their ascent and from 15 or 20 ft it was too fast and I got to watch the confused look on his face while his left hand searched all over for the deflator that was in his mouth. LOL Inflators belong in your hand not in your mouth.

I hear of all the shoulder pull dumps some people like to have all over their bc but every dump is another hole in the bladder and the less the better as far as I'm concerned. I use a bladder with one lower left pull dump and the normal inflator.

I also like a short inflator hose (as apposed to some you see that look like they hang down like three feet. That would probably limit head movement whicg my necklaced backup on a short hose doesn't do.

So...to use one of these things divers use "too long" inflator hoses, extra pull dumps and different ascent procedures than they normally do? Seems like a big mess for nothing to me.

Mike makes some excellent points that in my experience are all very valid.
One of the reasons why I don't promote the AirII or a similar device use is because of an incident that I witnessed first hand.

There were two very qualified instructors who were demoing how to deal with panicked diver on the surface and get them to shore. The victim/instructor had an AirII or similar device on their BCD. The rescuer/instructor approached from underneath and behind and then went to inflate the victims BCD. Instead of inflating it, the rescuer was doing just the opposite. The more negative the victim got the more underwater he/she went and the more panicked thrashing occurred. By the end of the drill the victim/instructor was very close to drowning. Had the tow to shore been much further then this demo would have gone terribly wrong.

The point that I'm trying to make in all of this is that here we had two very qualified instructors. The rescue instructor who is trained in the use of a wide variety of equipment mistakenly pushed the deflate button instead of the inflator. This drill did not have the intensity of an emergency to add to the confusion and yet, it very nearly had a tragic outcome.

 

[EuphoriaII]

I guess I am just the opposite of most people here. I certified with the Air II system on a scubapro BC. When we did skills review in a pool a couple of weekends ago my brother-in-law was using an octo and i thought to myself what an odd contraption. I did not know that Air II was considered an advance piece of equipment I just took it for granted that it was the standard. I love using it and I am like others who have posted in that I am always using it during a dive and I am comfortable using it as a second source.

Same here, except we practiced with both AirII and Octos, sometimes buddying up with someone that had the opposite setup of what I had at athe time. We were instructed that when you go on a dive boat, you may be teamed up with someone with either setup (or an octo around the neck) and that you should be comfortable with either. Also that you should discuss OOA situations with a new buddy in case they aren't familiar with your AirII (or whatever setup you have). I became comfortable with the AirII and had it added to the SP Knighthawk BC I just purchased for me and the SP Equator BC I bought for my 15 y/o son.

Oh, and DiverDan, We are also headed to Panama City Beach about 2 weeks after you are!! WooHoo.

 

[EuphoriaII]

There were two very qualified instructors who were demoing how to deal with panicked diver on the surface and get them to shore. The victim/instructor had an AirII or similar device on their BCD. The rescuer/instructor approached from underneath and behind and then went to inflate the victims BCD. Instead of inflating it, the rescuer was doing just the opposite. ......
The rescue instructor who is trained in the use of a wide variety of equipment mistakenly pushed the deflate button instead of the inflator. .

The inflate/deflate buttons are nearly identical on the AirII compared to the normal power inflator. Here is the normal power inflator:
(1st picture attached below)
and here is the AirII:
(2nd Picture attached below)
The positioning, size and shape of the buttons is nearly the same. The purge button is on the end of the AirII. Since you actually witnessed this incident, it is apparent that there is some confusion in the diving community as to how operate an AirII and this could lead to a dangerous situation if someone needed to rescue you. On the otherhand, with the similarity of the standard inflator buttons to the AirII, one could argue that the same confusion about which button inflates/which deflates could happen on almost any BC inflator.
I'm just a newbie but though I would throw that out for consideration.

 

[OE2X]

I can't really say why it occured other than to point out the following.
While that is true for ScubaPro products many inflate/deflate buttons are positioned so that the deflate button is at the end or where the purge is on the AirII. For someone unfamiliar with the system and who thinks that the deflate button is at the end of the hose then any button on the side would inflate the BC. I hedging a guess that this is what happened with this instructor. Again lack of familiarity with the product caused this situation.

 

[String]

Ive seen AIR2s used as a reg during trouble and cant really see anything wrong with it provided the user is trained/practiced with it as it is most definately different. Firstly the main reg has to be long/longer hose as you really dont want a buddy on the air2 - you donate main in that case and use the Air2 yourself. Provided you've practiced and comfortable with it the thing seems fine. Having said that ive seen a lot of them constantly dribble air or freeflow far more than i see "real" regs do it.

 

[lamont]

I can't really say why it occured other than to point out the following.
While that is true for ScubaPro products many inflate/deflate buttons are positioned so that the deflate button is at the end or where the purge is on the AirII. For someone unfamiliar with the system and who thinks that the deflate button is at the end of the hose then any button on the side would inflate the BC. I hedging a guess that this is what happened with this instructor. Again lack of familiarity with the product caused this situation.

That wasn't an Air-2, but it was a similar product...

I think i did a diver-found-on-bottom drill where I had to manipulate that thing and it was confusing...

 

[pete v]

hey there i am new diver who bought a bc with the air2, thank you for this discusion on this subject. one thing that i have learned is to really practice with you gear in different types of situations so using it become second nature.

 

[tuttt]

I used an air2 in my NAUI open water class. Practiced ascents with my buddy breathing off my primary, had no problems. But havent practiced in a while. Will definitely review that skill in the lake before my Bonaire trip.