Ascent Line rigging and deploying

[Spectre]

I've got a Dive-Rite 50# lift bag, and my reel is being ordered as we speak. I have two questions, one with rigging up an ascent line, and one with actually shooting the bag.

1) Those that don't know, Dive-Rite bags come with a pouch. My plan is to rig the pouch upside down on the right side of my tank, as my pony is on the left side, and the pony straps will give me a nice way to secure the lift bag pouch. On the right side of my BC under my pocket is a plastic ring where I was planning on clipping my reel. I have been vacilating between clipping the reel to the bag, or leaving it unclipped. Clipping to the bag leaves an entanglement hazard, not clipping to the bag leaves both a chance for the bag to vanish on me, and perhaps make it difficult to reach if I need it. Once I get the reel, I'm going to run some land tests as far as reach and such, so it might not work anyway, but I'm looking for opinions.

2) On shooting the bag. Everything I've seen has talked about looping it or anchoring it to the bottom. What if there isn't any easy way to do that? I had envisioned it would be used by sending the bag, then clipping the reel to myself and ascending up, while reeling in the line. One of my concerns on this was if I clip it to myself before I send the bag, I run the risk of going for a ride if the line gets fouled in the reel. However not clipping it to myself runs the risk of loosing the bag and reel if it gets fouled... and since this would be an emergency situation, loosing the bag and reel wouldn't be good. I plan on running some sea trial drills when I get the reel and get the configuration settled.

So I'm looking for opinions, both on the above, and on shooting bags for ascent lines in general.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Yo Funky_Monks,

1) what type of BC are you using?

2) I'd suggest NOT placing an open ended bag open-end-down
unless you have a way of closing it off to prevent just what
you fear (losing the lift bag)

3) I'd suggest a SPOOL rather than a reel. Spool less likely to
jam.

4) I'd suggest NOT clipping the reel to the bag while you are
diving ... you COULD potentially clip a spool to the bag and
stick the entire assembly in your bag

5) I'd suggest NOT clipping the reel/spool to you until you KNOW
the bag is on the surface (actually, the spool won't work at
all if you clip it prior to shooting the bag)

6) tieing off to the bottom is doable IF you've a thick enough
line on the spool/reel to comfortably hold for extended periods
of time. Personally, I'd rather NOT wrap my hands around
tied-to-the-bottom #24, #36, #48 line.

7) sometimes stuff is reachable on land but not in the water

8) PM me and perhaps we can get together in NH/lower ME
to go over some gear and do some drills

9) I am NOT an instructor and have no wish to be so take that
FWIW ...

G_M

 

[WreckWriter]

Hi Funky,

GM's advice is good. Don't attach it to anything, including yourself. Attaching the line to the bottom is old East Coast style, generally done with a Jersey Line rather than a liftbag. It's not standard anymore.

As for clipping the reel to yourself before shooting, nope. That's way dangerous. Do like GM said and get a spool. DO NOT clip it to yourself or you'll take a ride.

Most folks around here shoot at about 70 feet, shoot, then do first gas switch, then start deco time.

Tom

 

[Uncle Pug]

As I read you post I realized that the proliferation of reels and liftbags/dive markers poses a great hazzard to untrained divers.

Much ado is made of the necessity of getting training before using a drysuit... which is far less complicated than using a lift bag with line. Many of us started using drysuits before such training was ever thought of. But I can tell you that shooting a bag can really mess you up in a hurry if you are not careful.

There are so many issues in your post that I don't know if I can cover them all... but let me blanket them with this... you should get training... either formal or informal... in using a lift bag and a reel.

1) The way you plan on carrying your bag and reel is a potential snag hazzard of the first order... but you are already exposing yourself to that danger by using a back mounted pony. You should have thigh pockets put onto your exposure suit and stow things in them. Right pocket is for things you will use on the dive... left pocket is for backups. I can't deal with the pony here.

2) Don't use a reel for the bag... use a spool... and don't run the line under anything before sending it up.... let the spool spin freely in the water and when it stops spinning the bag is on the surface... clip the line off to the spool but never to yourself and you shouldn't be holding on to the line or the spool either... if the wind or surface current is taking the bag away then grab the spool every so often and jerk it down to bring the bag back.

3) You may keep the spool line and bag attached to one another stowed in the right pocket ready for deployment but then you should carry an extra spool in the left pocket.

4) Carry an extra double ended boltsnap so when you drop the one on your spool while winding it up to the next stop you have a spare to clip the line off with.

5) Plastic d-rings? Good grief Jeff!

6) Be willing to lose a bag rather than your life or risk serious injury... what is the cost of the most expensive bag/spool compared to a chamber ride or funeral???

7) Why do you need an ascent line??? Practice free ascents referencing the floating stuff in the water and your wrist mounted depth gauge. If you are ascending along a line... anchor or otherwise... do not touch it. Shooting a bag is to mark your position for the pickup boat or to keep from getting run over by other boaters... it is not an crutch to make up for deficient buoyancy skills.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
Attaching the line to the bottom is old East Coast style, generally done with a Jersey Line rather than a liftbag. It's not standard anymore.

Shane and I stopped by Lowes on the way to the boat yesterday and bought a spool of sisal cord.

Out on the reef we were marking locations by sending up bags tied to the spool of sisal... the the bag would pay line out of the center of the spool and then we would cut the line and tie it off to the bottom.

The plan was to mark the locations with GPS once back on the surface, retrieve the bag, cut the line and let it sink to rot away...

We shot four bags in a 3 acre area and ran out of bags so we finished the 70 minute dive putzing around on the scooters...

It was then that I realized we were going to have to ascend w/o a bag to mark our position in an area infested with boats...

Moral of the story... never forget the main reason for carrying a bag is to mark your position!

 

[tchil01]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
Hi Funky,

GM's advice is good. Don't attach it to anything, including yourself. Attaching the line to the bottom is old East Coast style, generally done with a Jersey Line rather than a liftbag. It's not standard anymore.

As for clipping the reel to yourself before shooting, nope. That's way dangerous. Do like GM said and get a spool. DO NOT clip it to yourself or you'll take a ride.

Most folks around here shoot at about 70 feet, shoot, then do first gas switch, then start deco time.

Tom

Tom

Jersey lines, running the line under something so the bag pulls you down vs. pulling you up, and tying off on the bottom are still alive up here in the East Coast. It's what I was taught in both my advanced class and wreck classes. Reels are used for penatrations and for low vis diving when you can't see your way back to the anchor line.

Anyway, that's the way I was taught... and pretty recently too. And it's the setup I see on a lot of boats up here. So what's the standard now?

Ty

 

[tchil01]

Hey UP

1) The way you plan on carrying your bag and reel is a potential snag hazzard of the first order... but you are already exposing yourself to that danger by using a back mounted pony. You should have thigh pockets put onto your exposure suit and stow things in them. Right pocket is for things you will use on the dive... left pocket is for backups. I can't deal with the pony here.

No Pony discussion here

I know you advocate thigh pockets but I wanted to get your thoughts on a diferent set up. I have two loops of surgical tubing off the bottom of my TP II ( I know, it's not a true BP... ) I roll my lift bag and secure it in the two loops. It's under my tank there's no chance of it getting snaged... and I can reach back and unhook it with one hand. It came in handy thiw weekend when a student lost his weight belt on the surface coming in from night dive and we had to surface swim that 36# belt back in.

Ty

 

[Spectre]

Wow... thanks for all the feedback, so much that I can't just quote simply, so lets try and throw out some responses, and let me know if I missed one of your questions/comments.

First, why an ascent line? I'll have a lift bag and a reel, so I want to know how to do it, in case I'm in a situation where I would need the knowledge to survive. The situations I'm thinking of would be involved in current, where the bag would be used to mark where I am, and the concern I have is staying with the bag on ascent [expecially if the surface current is different than the current at depth], but it's more a general knowledge thing of how to do things with the stuff I have.

Training. I had training with lift bags and reels in my Search & Recovery, which obviously doesn't entail true training, but I've also gained more experience with lift bags since then. So the informal training is beginning here with the information.

BC/Plastic rings. Yea yea yea, my BC is a piece of junk. It's on my list of things that will be replaced, but until I find the time to research into exactly what I want, or hit a point where it needs to be replaced [at which point the research time is made] it's got to do. It's just your low end, jacket style Dacor Sportster.

Location of the lift bag. Reachability and snag hazard... check. I could easily fashion something to strap it to my thigh. I like the idea of thigh pockets and I'll have to put some thought into that to see what sort of thing I might be able to fashion/find. Oh... the storage bag has velcro to keep it's contents inside.

No clipping... check.

clip the line off to the spool but never to yourself and you shouldn't be holding on to the line or the spool either... if the wind or surface current is taking the bag away then grab the spool every so often and jerk it down to bring the bag back.

Excellent... thanks UP.

 

[Wendy]

Jeff,

Dive rite sells a thigh pocket that is made to attach to a harness and velcro around your leg. Cut off the harness attachement and remove the velcro and glue/sew the pocket to the outside of your thigh. Halcyon also sells a pocket.

 

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by tchil01


Tom

Jersey lines, running the line under something so the bag pulls you down vs. pulling you up, and tying off on the bottom are still alive up here in the East Coast. It's what I was taught in both my advanced class and wreck classes. Reels are used for penatrations and for low vis diving when you can't see your way back to the anchor line.

Anyway, that's the way I was taught... and pretty recently too. And it's the setup I see on a lot of boats up here. So what's the standard now?

Ty

OK, my mistake. I was under the impression that the standard had changed to the shoot a bag and drift method on the Upper East Coast also.

In reality I see advantages to the Jersey method as well. It's always worked and there's certainly no reason it won't work still.

Tom