Article: Shearwater Announces Nitrox Recreational Mode for Petrel

[Progen]

... Turning early means I have no need to even check my pressure because I know I'll have more than plenty.
...

What if you had a leak all along?

 

[victorzamora]

What if you had a leak all along?

Then I'll have turned anyway, I'll have plenty anyway (especially in sidemount) and I would've noticed because I know what to expect out of each of my tanks. Too low and I assume something wrong with me mentally and I normally turn well short of thirds, anyway.

 

[drrich2]

However, it adds cost to the unit (R&D and hardware per unit) that I don't want to incur. Most tech divers would agree that if there's no need for something, there's no reason to bring it.....it's another thing to fail in the computer, hardware and software. Shearwater is doing the right thing, sticking to the people that look out for them and looking out for us in the process.

That's why companies that sell AI computers tend to offer them with & without the transmitter. Don't buy the transmitter, and any added cost should be negligible. Additional sales to recreational customers might even generate enough profit for more 'economy of scale' benefits and ultimately lower cost rather than raise it.

Richard.

 

[Splitlip]

I resent the fact that the tech diver is perfectly trimmed out while the rec diver is entirely vertical on the home page, lol.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

I resent the fact that the tech diver is perfectly trimmed out while the rec diver is entirely vertical on the home page, lol.

A very accurate representation in my experience.

 

[Omisson]

Yes you can get out. In fact, you must or you will drown. The way out is just usually longer in technical dives.

The fact that there may be a deco obligation or a navigation through a wreck or cave doesn't change the point that an SPG will not change your gas reserves. The correct gas amount and type is selected before the dive. Once it starts, all one can do to try and end with larger reserves is to abort the dive earlier. As you abort the dive, you proceed out doing whatever deco stops and gas switches that the plan called for.

Hopefully, you don't find out as you exit that you failed catastrophically on your planning as to run out of gas. In case you did, you follow whatever contingency may be appropriate, be it having gas donated by a team member or switching to a poorer deco gas and using a contingency deco schedule. The same thing if an accident or mechanical failure compromises part of your gas.

On a final note, are you really advocating technical divers carry a wireless transmitter on every tank they have and add to the existing tasks that of ensuring all transmitters are properly synchronized and are in agreement with the mechanical ones?

First, it is disingenuous to say you can "just get out". Deco diving requires specific volumes of specific gasses for specific times to exit. You cannot simply "abort the dive" in the conventional sense (surfacing). Therefore knowing gas volume is a significant factor.

I'd like the back up.

In the event if a failure of an spg you do not know tank pressure, an AI as a back up could alleviate the added stress/task loading, not increase it.

As for the "added task" - bull- You do not have to "sync" anything. Neither your spg (when was the last time YOU had yours calibrated?) nor an AI is intended to give you precision. As long as hey are in general agreement you are fine. Nice try at a red herring....

---------- Post added April 8th, 2014 at 11:32 PM ----------

Obviously I don't, either. Are you saying that a cave diver or tech diver turning a dive EARLIER than planned due to failure might cause them to run out of gas? If so, I'm not a cave diver or tech diver at all! I've always PLANNED how much I'd need. Turning early means I have no need to even check my pressure because I know I'll have more than plenty.

A wireless transmitter IS another failure point, and is NOT needed redundancy....as was pointed out above. If you DO need redundancy, why not a second mechanical spg? Or a button gauge? Either way, MUCH cheaper, much less task loading, and much slimmer chance of failure.

On the topic of "Why not add it to the Petrel"....you're right, I wouldn't have to use it. However, it adds cost to the unit (R&D and hardware per unit) that I don't want to incur. Most tech divers would agree that if there's no need for something, there's no reason to bring it.....it's another thing to fail in the computer, hardware and software. Shearwater is doing the right thing, sticking to the people that look out for them and looking out for us in the process.

Back on the ORIGINAL topic, I think the Recrational Nitrox mode is really cool. It's a clean, simple setup that really makes it stand out in my book. I prefer the traditional "Tech" style, but that's because I appreciate the extra information. However, if my wife ever dives it I'll be extremely tempted to switch it over to Rec mode for her. If I do that, I might have to buy HER a Petrel.

It is an unneeded redundancy because? Oh yea... You said so.

Gas volume is a critical factor. Having a redundancy is a no-brainer to me. A second spg has the same failure point as adding an AI transmitter. At least this red herring was self proclaimed.

Transmitter integration in a unit would cost very little - marginal on the unit purchase side- if you didn't want the transmitter. As most of the technology is well developed and easily available.

But again, by all means continue shunning innovation. The sac rate info at various depths alone is far more valuable post dive then you can possibly imagine. It's the raw data like that giving us reason to fundamental assumptions on bubble theory in DCS and allows us to study acclimatization effects on DCS risk.

I'm fairly sure that if status quo was so great, we'd be diving Clorox bottles instead of BCDs and using spools of rope instead of cave reels.

 

[Nuribromanski]

Gas volume is a critical factor.

OK yes, but neither wifi nor spg changes gas volume. either u brought enough for ur dive, or u didn't. i'd be fine planning BT/deco stops/gas volumes, checking pressure when analuzing tanks, and then diving regs with no spgs just timers. bc i brought enough gas. gas loss during dive? u will notice from sound LONG be4 u see it on spg

 

[Omisson]

OK yes, but neither wifi nor spg changes gas volume. either u brought enough for ur dive, or u didn't. i'd be fine planning BT/deco stops/gas volumes, checking pressure when analuzing tanks, and then diving regs with no spgs just timers. bc i brought enough gas. gas loss during dive? u will notice from sound LONG be4 u see it on spg

Understood. But it's hard to contingency plan if you don't have volume info and your deco plan was blown for some reason. Again, it's all about redundancy and contingencies, no?

 

[gekodivebali]

Had a few dives this week with the new rec mode. As always with Shearwater, it's really well done with clear info on main screen. The gauge with amount of nitrogen on the bottom right is a bit of a gimmick, but I know some divers like it. Ability to set the safety stops is nice. Altogether, I think it adds value to this product that I already own.
It's also interesting to see that it is roughly the same price as most mid-high range computers from other brands. I think it's great value for money (especially in America) for such a reliable piece of kit.
I ordered another one so that my wife can get hers back post pregnancy and we can do some tec dives together.

Am considering getting a few more units for rental at the shop...

On another note, the Predator also got updated with the neat new way to switch gases and the user selectable middle row infos. Another product just got better for free!

---------- Post added April 10th, 2014 at 05:39 PM ----------

Regarding the AI: I don't really care either way. Transmitters I've had in the past have failed many times and became more of an annoyance. There is little use for tec divers, but could help sales with some rec divers.

If they choose to add such functionality in a new model, Shearwater would have to be careful how they integrate this into the user interface. I once had a computer telling me by flashing repeatedly that I had 0 minutes worth of gas left in the tank the transmitter was connected to and obliterating deco info... Dangerous!

 

[victorzamora]

That's why companies that sell AI computers tend to offer them with & without the transmitter. Don't buy the transmitter, and any added cost should be negligible. Additional sales to recreational customers might even generate enough profit for more 'economy of scale' benefits and ultimately lower cost rather than raise it.

Richard.

It's not a matter of buying it with and without the transmitter. There's a large R&D cost that could be put towards better things than something like AI. Also, the computer would require a transceiver that is currently not in there. All of that adds cost to the unit I'd be purchasing. Yeah, the technology is already there....but Shearwater doesn't have it. That means they'd have to either purchase it from someone or develop it themselves.

First, it is disingenuous to say you can "just get out". Deco diving requires specific volumes of specific gasses for specific times to exit. You cannot simply "abort the dive" in the conventional sense (surfacing). Therefore knowing gas volume is a significant factor.

If you're aborting the dive early, you have more gas than if you had stayed longer. If the only reason to abort the dive is a misfunctioning SPG, you don't need to check it to know you're fine. The gas planning covered that. There's no need for a backup.

In the event if a failure of an spg you do not know tank pressure, an AI as a back up could alleviate the added stress/task loading, not increase it.

And on every dive that you do, there will be additional task loading switching between AI transmitters to keep track of all of your breathing gas switches.

As for the "added task" - bull- You do not have to "sync" anything. Neither your spg (when was the last time YOU had yours calibrated?) nor an AI is intended to give you precision. As long as hey are in general agreement you are fine. Nice try at a red herring....

He wasn't talking about calibration, he was talking about SYNChronising the transmitter to the computer. Many (most? all?) AI computers on the market have their transmitters fall out of sync and need to be re-synchronised to provide data. Multiple transmitters on multiple tanks increases the likelihood of a similar failure, and sinking the right transmitter to the right gas under the circumstances it would be necessary adds a lot of failure points. Synchronising multiple transmitters to the correct mix in your computer adds a lot of task loading.

It is an unneeded redundancy because? Oh yea... You said so.

No, not because I said so. It's because your plan should take it into account. If it's so necessary, or even beneficial, why don't you see more divers with double SPGs? In my cave setup, I've got lollipopped SPGs. Why didn't my instructors yell at me for not having a second SPG in place, along my tank? They'd be neatly stowed and out of the way!

Gas volume is a critical factor. Having a redundancy is a no-brainer to me.

KNOWING your gas volume does nothing to ADD TO your gas volume.

A second spg has the same failure point as adding an AI transmitter. At least this red herring was self proclaimed.

I think the transmitter still introduces more failure points. First of all, a second SPG is not needed.....so you have to compare 1 SPG vs 1 SPG + AI Tx. Either way, the AI adds the possible failure points of electrical failures (flooding), battery failure (dead), and losing sync (software), as well as being sync'd to the wrong gas in your computer (human).

Transmitter integration in a unit would cost very little - marginal on the unit purchase side- if you didn't want the transmitter. As most of the technology is well developed and easily available.

Like I stated, it's not just the receiver cost (which would add to the price)....but the R&D cost for the Tx, Rx, and software for the connection.

But again, by all means continue shunning innovation.

I'm not shunning innovation. I'm shunning unneeded complexity that adds little to a dive compared to the relatively high amount of risk being added.

The sac rate info at various depths alone is far more valuable post dive then you can possibly imagine.

You've accused me of being pretentious before. I just wanted to point that out. On what planet would I not be able to imagine how useful that is? It's just not worth the additional crap to me. Plus, I do average SAC rate calculations after each dive and I do upstream vs downstream SAC rate calculations as well. It doesn't take long, and it's not needed. If I ever NEEDED it, it'd be easy to figure out anyway.

It's the raw data like that giving us reason to fundamental assumptions on bubble theory in DCS and allows us to study acclimatization effects on DCS risk.

Besides the complete and utter lack of proper grammar here, breathing rates have no correlation to DCS. How would it help?

I'm fairly sure that if status quo was so great, we'd be diving Clorox bottles instead of BCDs and using spools of rope instead of cave reels.

I'm not saying the status quo IS so great, I'm saying that not all change is progress.