Are you fit to scuba?

[Seraphimx]

I do understand statistic are pure correlation, and I'm a strong advocate of "you can make numbers tell anything, so they are BS", but if you have only (as an example) 1 declared death in scuba with cardiac arrest as a cause (and you need a fairly detailed coroner report), in North America, you can SEE that it may not be something to be really a concern, that most people make good judgement of they capacities. In another way, if you have 5 declared death, than maybe we can try to see why it happens.

Furthermore, the coroner makes a fairly thorough investigation and can pinpoint the "CAUSE of Death", you take all the causes and make a correlation with those, you won't be off the mark by much. They also post details of the autopsy, that can give you a clue as too narcosis or exhaustion.

I don't think a vacation diver will choose a hard dive, but will likely ask for a Leisure Dive, at perfect condition, shallow and no current.
&
I don't think a more advanced diver will try to go over their capacities.


Looking at those reports I posted before, it looks like most scuba accident happen to people who just wanted to don gear on and dive on the spot with ABSOLUTELY no planning.
We can fairly hypothesize accident are due to bad planning majorly before any health issues.


BTW dpaustex , I'm the anal-retentive, number addict, Engineering Student

 

[vladimir]

Back on subject, divers that have a heart attack under water are sad. No sadder than heart attacks above water, I suppose.

A lot sadder, I suppose. The large majority of heart attack victims survive--I doubt the same is true for those who have a heart attack while scuba dving.

Many people are under the impression that diving is "just swimming around" when, in fact, it puts your body (and mind) under stress.

I think that diving is usually considerably less stressful, physically, than "swimming around," and if divers did more swimming when they weren't diving, they'd be better able to cope with those occasions when diving is more physically stressful. As for mental stress, you clearly dive for different reasons than I do, because the minute diving causes mental stress is the minute I'll do something else on my vacations, or just stay at work--here they pay me for the stress, not the other way around.

I'm a strong advocate of "you can make numbers tell anything, so they are BS"

Only to the innumerate can they "tell anything," which shouldn't include you, as an engineering student.

 

[Seraphimx]

In an engineering environment (physics, maths and such) I'd say yes trends, statistics and correlation will be 100% right.

But it's hard to say human interaction can be summarized ONLY with correlation. The are so many factors to take into account that it can't be treated with pure mathematics.

As an example, I had this discussion with a teacher, a research group stated that 1 cup of wine per day is beneficial to your overall health.
Another research team disproved this by stating that the first research took care of only two variables. (Wine drinking level) & (General Health).
While this looks like it's an ok assumption, you must understand that statistically people who drink wine have: 1) More money to pay medical bills. 2) More money to eat well 3) Less stress due to financial situation etc etc.
Taking all of these into consideration you can't go back to the simple (Wine) vs (Health).
You'll have to divide people by ethnicity and financial capacity and marital status. and check that if two people who have to SAME PROFILE but with DIFFERENT DRINKING HABITS, which one will have a better GENERAL HEALTH.
Now they revised it and still conclude it is beneficial but it passed from one full glass to 1/8 of a wine glass or less (I don't remember exactly)

Another point my long rant made me think about is that what I was asking for is maybe impossible.
Since,
1) Yes we can have statistics about people who have died in the process.
2) No, we don't have any hard data (except if you collect it) of people who had near-miss, experiences physically, which (i guess) should be a greater number than the ones who actually had an accident.
3) How do you QUANTIFY or QUALIFY the "Physical danger level" of the diver at the time.

One way to truly know would be to conduct and full scale research and simply have multiple divers with multiple dive site and monitor their Heart Rate, Inhalation effort throughout the dive and so on.

 

[WetBoy101]

I think it would be faster and easier to lose some weight and get in a little better shape!!

 

[Rhone Man]

My usual caution to students is that I'm an old, fat guy ... so try not to pass me. After the dive, the sisters came out of the water, dropped their rigs, and one of them came over to me, stood facing me with hands on her hips and said "old, fat guy my ass ... you don't get to play that card again" ...

Fitness to dive cannot generally be determined by how someone looks ... you need to see them in the water ...

Just as an observation, most of the lifetime career instructors I have met (ie. in their 50s and still doing it) tend to be on the slightly plump and unfit side. In that sense they are not that different from a high proportion of 50 year olds in any other profession. But they still keep amazingly low SACs and an uncanny ability to fulfil tasks in challenging circumstances underwater without over exerting themselves.

 

[Rhone Man]

A lot sadder, I suppose. The large majority of heart attack victims survive--I doubt the same is true for those who have a heart attack while scuba dving.

During the 30 odd years I have been diving in the BVI (admittedly a small place) I can recall about 20 or so scuba related deaths. I think somewhere between 2/3rds and 3/4ths of them involved heart attacks. I don't know during that time how many people had heart attacks underwater and survived, but I suspect it is a smaller number.

I think about that quite a bit as I dive with my father, who is 73 and pretty adverse to exercise.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think it would be faster and easier to lose some weight and get in a little better shape!!

It depends ... I assure you that me losing weight is neither fast nor easy ... although if I put my mind to it I'm sure I could (at least temporarily).

I think I can also safely say that I'm more fit to dive in adverse conditions (because I do so regularly) than the majority of the people who get on this board and bash fat people ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[bowlofpetunias]

It depends ... I assure you that me losing weight is neither fast nor easy ... although if I put my mind to it I'm sure I could (at least temporarily).

I think I can also safely say that I'm more fit to dive in adverse conditions (because I do so regularly) than the majority of the people who get on this board and bash fat people ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

:worship: Why oh why can't I give you 101 thanks for that post? :worship: I promised myself I wouldn't post in this thread again but you got me! I can tell you that it was a lot faster and easier to lose some weight and get in a little better shape when I was younger than it is now!

It was a whole lot easier back then to look at people and think to myself "How can anyone let themselves get in that shape?" At least I was polite enough to keep those thoughts to myself! Nobody wants to be overweight and certainly nobody wants to be obese and unfit.

Age, genetics and injuries sustained in a very physically active life have taken their toll but I have gained a wealth of joy and experience from the life I have lived. I will be darned if I will withdraw and quit doing the things I love because some gung ho youngsters enjoying the flush of youth or prime of life think my weight and fitness level don't match their standards. Trust me.. your time will come just like the rest of us....

In the mean time I would rather put my life in the hands of the competent but overweight and unfit than the gung ho over overconfident

 

[Rhone Man]

I think I can also safely say that I'm more fit to dive in adverse conditions (because I do so regularly) than the majority of the people who get on this board and bash fat people ...

Bob, you are not fat. You are just a nutritional overachiever.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, you are not fat. You are just a nutritional overachiever.

Ha ... you got that right. All that diving makes me hungry ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)