Are you fit to scuba?

[trumpjk]

Great advice freewillie. Also remember you aren't 18 anymore, what you could do when you were 18 you can't do at 40!!!!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh, and Bob, my apologies for the informality of presuming to be on a first-name basis...I've learned so much from you on this forum and the articles on your website that I almost forget we haven't met!

Thanks ... and feel free to call me by my name anytime ... I'm a pretty informal dude ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Seraphimx]

To get back to the subject:

Is there anyone who can find or post actual statistics about Death or Accidents in scuba diving, maybe DAN?, due to bad health?

Furthermore, I do understand the concern, I restarted diving not long ago and the second dive I did (stupid of me) was on a wreck at 75ft with LOTS of current while going down on a line.

When I arrived at the bottom I was truly breathing hard and having a hard time. This coming from a 24year old at 160# that plays soccer three time a week. I can guess that other people with a less than stellar health would find this dive HARD to the point of almost having a heart attack, it may be a wrong judgement from my part but it may be hard for other people. (I certainly felt like I was having an hearth attack)

Also, we have to take into context that a great percentage of the diving community are leisure divers. They go diving in tropical climate with almost no current, great viz and great temps.

I don't think they would be willing to go down a line in Murky Water, Cold (40F) Temps and in a Drysuit.

All things inclusive, we should REALLY have a hard data to actually make a point in this topic. Someone can hypothesize, but they can't give a DEFINITE answer without hard evidence.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Great advice freewillie. Also remember you aren't 18 anymore, what you could do when you were 18 you can't do at 40!!!!

... and what you can do at 40 is often very difficult to do at 60 ... no matter how much ya work at it.

Getting old sux ... but it sure beats the alternative ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dpaustex]

I think the original post was pretty good. I like when the MD's post something, and it is more of an observation-type-of-thing.

I'm the anal-retentive engineer, like numbers (read: trend analysis, on this subject), am a dive instructor, and a student of life. I was once certified as an EMT, understand the basic body mechanisms, have a background in chemistry, and read quite a bit on the subject of diving. Lots of great info out there, and quite a few people that insist everything physically impacting people, regarding diving, is a known quantity. Above all, I have found that there are a lot of opinions on things. Opinions are good, and can lead to good discussions, and perhaps get people to think (seems to be a dying process, IMHO).

What I have noticed, in my classes are several things about divers (I teach everything from rookies to old hands). First, as an observation, there are frequently people in my class who have a few extra pounds on them. No, they aren't bad people, just stating this as an observation, along with the thread, and about how that can lead to heart attacks.

Generally overweight people have a higher air consumption rate than an equivalent height person. Those of you that want to nit pick, I know air consumption is based upon a lot of things, but want to point out that if you could take two identical individuals, with the same experience/demeanor, basic physiology is going to dictate the person with more body mass is going to use more air (more cells to keep alive). Yes, there are the variables of cardiovascular fitness, hydration levels, etc., etc., etc., but I am talking about if you had two people exaxtly the same (let me know if you have a way to measure this, and also tell me you've found the two identical finger prints).

But of course, no two people are the same. But what I have noticed, is that the larger people complain more about aches and pains after diving (DCS???). This seems to increase with deeper dives, and repetitive dives. All of this while staying within the "limits" of their tables/computers.

But I have also noticed unexpected issues with people that don't "look" out-of-shape/overweight. These people, upon unobtrusive listening/questioning, are couch potatoes. Looking at my anecdotal information, coupled with a little knowledge of how the body works, peppered liberally with trend-analysis, stirring in my own two-cents, it would seem that there is more to "just swimming around" (as one poster stated it) that impacts your body's response to diving. Lest we forget the impacts of depth/pressure, I think there is a pretty clear case for being doggone careful if you are in the large person group, or the sedentary person group, if you're going to go "get the card" (moreso AOW, in this vein) and thinking that you are safe.

Seems when I talk about "guidelines" of the Navy tables, or your computer's algorithm, people think it is one size fits all (too good a pun to pass up). The body is pretty resilient, but I think if you take poor physiological condition, circulation issues, poor hydration, gas exchange issues in the lungs, potentially add in a major stressor (bad currents, etc.), then you risk something very bad happening. Sadly, once it does, you've now added in the problem of you're under the water when it happens.

Talking off the top of my head, many drowning victims die with air in their tanks. I have some students argue about our shop teaching them over and over and over about the safety drills, and the need to practice them. But I also see people with the attitude of "the technology will protect me" by having the fanciest gear, and that thinking every DM on every boat is going to bail them out. The issue is that if you stress your body beyond reasonable limits, bad stuff can happen.

IF you are a diver, get fit. This means get your resting pulse rate down. This means doing some serious cardio (all the time). This means don't smoke. This also means getting/staying mentally "fit" for a dive. I have to agree with the point made about the "dive physical". Bodies and habits change. Your dive behavior changes. You may now have more experience and training, which may subject your body to more stress (diving in more current, diving deeper, etc.)......yet your body may not be in as good a shape as it was in when you had that dive physical. So you have a divergence of "fitness" versus stressors, which I would surmise (for those of you math fiends, it would be differential area under the curve) would increase the "potential" for stuff to go wrong.

What do I mean by Mentally fit? This means not scheduling a Galapagos live-aboard if you've never been diving in serious current, or away from medical help. This means don't go deep diving if you haven't been taught. This means honing your skills - and making sure your buddy has, too. Why do I say this? It is simply because I have seen people taking a course, then thinking that getting a card suddenly makes them some sort of expert diver. Book knowledge is a good thing, but experience in the water is good, too.

Back on subject, divers that have a heart attack under water are sad. No sadder than heart attacks above water, I suppose. But the really sad part is that we, as a society, can prevent most of them - yet choose not to. Why is that, exactly? Americans, in particular, have dietary habits and exercise habits that aren't quite so good. Many people are under the impression that diving is "just swimming around" when, in fact, it puts your body (and mind) under stress. We think that technology is always going to save us, when we have the most sophisticated computer right inside our heads. We CHOOSE to mistreat our bodies (I am included in that group, as I think ice cream made with butter fat should not count toward daily calorie intake...and I think that "thinking about" exercise should count, when I'm too busy to schedule it).

I implore my student's to get fit(ter), and not party when diving. No one really knows what impacts the pressures have on brain function (when is that underwater brain scanner coming out, anway. Not an app for that??), but we all need to help our bodies along, be being hydrated, being trained, being fit. Sure, you can push the limits by being 40-50 lbs overweight. You can push it by having poor cardiovascular fitness. But please, don't. Imagine having a heart attack under water, then maybe drowning. Then imagine not doing that. I vote for not doing it.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Cerebral_Origami]

In regards to heavier diver complaining more. I know form my own experience that it is not DCS but simply being out of shape. When the heaviest thing you move 99% of the time is a mouse or a binder. Then you start slinging 40-50 lbs of gear around and when you don't even go for walks and then jump off boats, climb ladders (wearing said 40-50 lbs of gear) you will sprain/strain your muscles and connective tissues.
I expect this when I go on vacation whether a diving vacation or a vacation where I know I'll be walking a lot.
Luckily I have an understanding doctor who always provides me with vicodin or some other pain killer so I can continue to enjoy myself even after I pull a muscle/put my back out or blister the soles of my feet!

 

[mobyrne]

I have enjoyed following the thread. It's good to do some deep thinking about our personal readiness to participate. I used to take my health for granted even though I exceed to normal height/weight profile of a healthy person at 6 feet and 208 pounds, but maintained a fairly good exercise regime with 60 minutes on a 15 degree incline at 4mph. Then I came down with diabetes and later needed two heart stents. I had thought that my diving and instructing were over -- and they were, for five years.

I resumed diving this year after passing the new DAN medical guidelines. My cardiologist is also a dive doctor and he put me through the ringer to show that I could be stable at 13 METS. I still do the 60 minutes, 15 degree incline, and 4 mph at least five times a week. My resting pulse in in the low 60s and BP well under control. My point is not that it is possible to come back from "problems," I think there are much more dramatic recovery stories than mine. What I wanted to share is that I closely monitor many measures that most of us take for granted. In addition to my regular morning and pre-meal glucose tests, when I dive I test my glucose level 60 minutes before, 30 minutes before, immediately before, immediately after, and 3-hours after each dive. (Talk about attracting sharks!) My levels must be between specified marks and I have to be aware of the trend. All it takes is one bad reading and I have to scrub (hasn't happened yet).

So here I am, 66 years old, still 6 feet/208, and I am intimately aware of my vitals plus. I think I am in decent shape and don't dive over 90 feet or in an overhead environment. I love diving and instructing. But the bottom line is that the decision, the informed decision, to dive or not is up to me.

I hope everyone dives wisely! Blue skies and clear water!

 

[freewillie]

Sorry -- post is redundant because the originating post was removed...and I don't know how to delete my post...argh, me and technology are not a great fit! --
I must say that the lack of civility I am seeing on ScubaBoard really is making me wonder if it's worth my time to be here. Personal attacks and insults have no place on this board. Have either of you worked on having an argument that makes points without stooping to insults? Are either of you able to separate your opinions from facts? You have both, in my view, violated the terms of service in the Basic Scuba Discussion section by flaming each other. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion. There is something very wrong about making personalized attacks on each other because you disagree. I suggest you both wait a day before responding again -- and it might be a good idea to save yourself a draft, then read it over a while later before posting it; it'll help you check your tone and hopefully your egos.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[freewillie]

To get back to the subject:

Is there anyone who can find or post actual statistics about Death or Accidents in scuba diving, maybe DAN?, due to bad health?

...... //.......

All things inclusive, we should REALLY have a hard data to actually make a point in this topic. Someone can hypothesize, but they can't give a DEFINITE answer without hard evidence.

The problem with statistics is that they only show correlation, not cause and effect. You might look at like being overweight and developing diabetes. Not everyone who is overweight will develope diabetes, but being overweight will increase your risk of diabetes. And, not just to pick on overweight people, not all smokers will develop lung cancer. However, it is virtually unheard of to have a person with lung cancer who did not smoke.

My intention in starting this thread wasn't to say overweight people shouldn't dive. Quite the contrary. It was to have each individual diver look at themselves physically and to be honest about their own level of fitness. That also includes thin people as well. Keep in mind you can be thin and out of shape.

Scuba diving can be a very leisurely sport and not too physically demanding. Just gear up on vacation hop off the boat and float along the reef. It can also be a very physcially demanding sport. Lots of heavy gear, walking with heavy gear, fighting waves, currents, etc. These physical demands are increased at depth. The problem is when you expect the dive to be nice and leisurely but becomes very strenuous. Underwater you can't say, "time out, I want to take a rest." Sometimes conditions won't let this happen. Then the diver finds themselves physically dealing with a situation they might not be able to.

We make assumption all the time in life. We often make assumptions based on what we see, not what we know. We do make stereotypical judgements on others based on their looks and their weight. But we really can't judge how a diver will perform in the water until we actually see them dive.

Judge a diver by their skills not their weight or their looks.

Be honest with yourself and your fitness. Do consider a exercise program before your scuba vacation if you haven't been active for a while.

Fun and safe diving.

 

[ozzydamo]

The problem with statistics is that they only show correlation, not cause and effect. You might look at like being overweight and developing diabetes. Not everyone who is overweight will develope diabetes, but being overweight will increase your risk of diabetes. And, not just to pick on overweight people, not all smokers will develop lung cancer. However, it is virtually unheard of to have a person with lung cancer who did not smoke.

My intention in starting this thread wasn't to say overweight people shouldn't dive. Quite the contrary. It was to have each individual diver look at themselves physically and to be honest about their own level of fitness. That also includes thin people as well. Keep in mind you can be thin and out of shape.

Scuba diving can be a very leisurely sport and not too physically demanding. Just gear up on vacation hop off the boat and float along the reef. It can also be a very physcially demanding sport. Lots of heavy gear, walking with heavy gear, fighting waves, currents, etc. These physical demands are increased at depth. The problem is when you expect the dive to be nice and leisurely but becomes very strenuous. Underwater you can't say, "time out, I want to take a rest." Sometimes conditions won't let this happen. Then the diver finds themselves physically dealing with a situation they might not be able to.

We make assumption all the time in life. We often make assumptions based on what we see, not what we know. We do make stereotypical judgements on others based on their looks and their weight. But we really can't judge how a diver will perform in the water until we actually see them dive.

Judge a diver by their skills not their weight or their looks.

Be honest with yourself and your fitness. Do consider a exercise program before your scuba vacation if you haven't been active for a while.

Fun and safe diving.

Some highlander body form might be short and stout and extremely fit, but they will look fit!
If someone is very skilled at diving, the only time they will look unfit is if they are either sick or have stopped diving for a considerable length of time and incapacitated physically or mentally(depressed or lazy).
Over eating should be called for what it is- an addiction to sugar!!!!!!!!!
What you do and what you eat shapes how you will look, you can't get away from that!
It's delusional behavior to think contrary to facts and that's half the problem of all problems!
You can't have your double whopper and cheese and expect to be your optimum.....just can't do it.........no Galapagos dives for you Boy'o!!!!!!!!