Are you all just technical? What is technical?

[mathauck0814]

For the vast majority of "technical divers" with which I am acquainted, I wouldn't say that the vast majority of their dives are "technical dives". Most of us do several dives within recreational limits for every "technical" dive we attempt. For those recreational dives, we all use the same equipment (albeit, we use less of it) regardless of the depth. That's why the BP/W is so popular. Because it's the one kit you need to do anything you want to do. It's well suited for the most challenging and riskiest dives you can do and it's equally well suited for the pedestrian fish watching that most of us do on the weekends. Like Lynne said, it just WORKS.

 

[Crush]

I am not sure that moving the flotation forward of my lungs is going to make much difference to me. Am I missing something?

Having floatation forward of your lungs will prevent "face planting" if the weight is improperly distributed. Think of the moment arm (tau = r x F) between the weight and the weighted center of the sources of buoyancy (your body, your suit, and your wing). The greater the separation between the weights and the weighted center of the sources of buoyancy (i.e., at large r) the greater the tendency to tip (again, for improperly distributed weights).

Also, try keeping your thighs and chest in the same plane while bending your knees. In most cases this will help tip you backward a bit.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

I started years ago with a backplate and harness - no wing - no BC. I have had a couple of different BC's over the years that I liked using and would probably still dive in the one I have now hanging in the closet... I switched to a BP/W because for me its just a simpler set up. I got tired of all of the extra's on the newer BC's that I didn't really need. They build them like a back pack with padding and what not that personally I just don't need. I try not to do a lot of hiking with full gear....

I now use my BP/W set up for all my diving. Its nice to travel with as far as weight and bulk and I can change wings if I am heading to warmer climates or just plan to use AL 80's. What is really nice is I can switch from single tanks to doubles in minutes, and not have to change around the locations of the gear I normally carry with me.

 

[Them]

Having floatation forward of your lungs will prevent "face planting" if the weight is improperly distributed. ...

That leaves you modifying a static condition (weight distribution) with a dynamic condition (buoyancy in the variable-buoyancy parts of the system) though, right? So you are going to trim out differently depending on the inflation of the BCD....and the pressure in your tanks?

I'm trying to picture how that works out. Seems as though an empty tank will push you forward more than a full tank so you will need a fair amount more volume in your BCD, and will be bobbing on the surface like a cork.

OTOH if the buoyancy control was very near the tanks (short arm) it seems like it could vary the... 200 cubic inches or so... needed to offset the air in the tank without really changing the overall balance. If the full tanks didn't pitch you forward, the empty tank wouldn't pitch you forward, and you would be able to use the air in your lungs to establish a head-back posture on the surface (just as you do when floating in a swimming pool).

That seems like an argument for the BP/W.

 

[Crush]

Seems as though an empty tank will push you forward more than a full tank so you will need a fair amount more volume in your BCD, and will be bobbing on the surface like a cork.

Based upon my own "face-planting" the problem was about 20 lbs of lead, all on one belt, all having slid forward to rest on my navel. Now to achieve proper trim I have weight on the top cam band of my tank, weight on the bottom cam band, and weight on the belt (restrained so that it does not slide).

My total weight and my distribution of weight changes with my suit, tanks, and even extra pieces of heavier gear. With the weight distribution mentioned above I have no need to readjust my weights during a dive.

I dive a BP&W now. I used to dive a (rear inflate) Zeagle Scout BC. This may not be popular with some, but for me from a trim and balance point of view there is no difference between the Zeagle Scout and my BP&W provided that my weights were properly distributed on both.

 

[chrpai]

I stopped diving for several years and ordered a BP/W when I decided to start back up. I initially estimated that I'd need as much as 6lbs of lead. I bought a weight belt to wear under my harness and put it in the front. I didn't faceplant. As the weeks went by, I gradually reduced my weight to 3lbs which I put on tank straps. Now I've reduced it to zero. The stainless steel backplate is all I need to stay negative with my 500psi AL80 tank. I still don't face plant on my trim and bouyancy control is locked on. The BP/W fits me like a glove and is comfortable even with a wetsuit. ( Although I will admit I'm a bit overweighed in this scenario. Should be fine in salt water though and use the tank strap pockets again if I need to. )

So based on 6 years of diving a stab jacket and now 3 months of diving a BP/W I can honestly say it's a really good choice for a non "technical" diver.

 

[fire_diver]

THEM, don't get wrapped around the axle with the "pushing your face down" scenario. There is only one thing that causes that to happen; an overwieghted diver putting too much air in thier BC and trying to ride it like a it's a raft. When you are properly weighted, you are basically neutral at the end of a dive. When you surface near nuetral, or even a few pounds negative, you only need to add a little air to keep your head comfortably out of the water. The problem is that many new ( or not- properly trained) divers are seriously over-weighted. Add to this that they want to ride chest high on the water surface. This is a disater scenario that can even lead to face plants in stab jackets.

 

[fisheater]

NO, ZERO, NADA BC, whether it be a jacket, back-inflate, hybrid or BP/W, will keep an unconscious diver's face out of the water. (That's what your buddy is for.) Don't believe any sales pitch that says otherwise.

If you're inclined to dive cold water, BP/Ws are that much better in such environments. I lost a full ten pounds of lead of my weighting when I switched from a Zeagle to a steel BP/W. (5 lbs. of steel backplate plus 5 pounds of floaty BC padding I no longer had to sink.) With heavy exposure protection, it's very easy to overload modern BCs' integrated weight features and, even if not overloaded, the difference in buoyancy between diver and scuba unit can make for very dangerous underwater doffing and donning (as one may need to do to resolve entanglements).


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[freewillie]

Why exactly are jacket BCDs "better" for beginners? I never quite worked that out..

probably because they come in inexpensive varieties that scuba outfits can put in their rental department.

I've never dived a BP/W so I can't tell you about "streamlining" your gear. The real question you have to as is what type of diving do you think you will be doing in the future. Are you going to dive local in thick wetsuits requiring lots of lift, or are you going to be a vacation diver only when the water is warm? Will you try and get to 50-100 dives as if your live depended upon it, or will you accumulated 2-10 dives a year while on vacation?

Your answer typically will dictate what type of BC you want. I dive a Zeagle Stiletto which is a back inflate BC not a jacket. I chose that one because it offers enough lift for me diving locally with 7 mm wetsuit, hood, gloves, booties and 22 lbs lead and yet is light enough for travel and I take it with me when diving is part of the vacation. It also has 5 stainless steel D-rings to clip various accessories in an unlimited combination of configurations.

The best advice I could give you regarding your choice of BC is make sure it fits well. No matter what type of BC you get it must fit you. An advantage Zeagle has is their components are modular so you can change the cummerbund and shoulder harnessess easily to customize your fit. Your shop can help you with this if you order through them.

Good luck, welcome to the addiction.

 

[Them]

Is there a BP/W Bible I should read?


The more I think about it, the more it seems as though the choice matters less than making a choice. As in... The loss if you try a BP/W is about the same as the loss flipping a vest-style BCD. To be a well rounded diver you should be familiar with both (if for no other reason than your buddy may have a vest and you need to do the pre-dive check). You can be a safe and competent diver in either type of gear. You can have fun in either type of gear.


But you are less likely to be safe, we'll rounded, competent, etc if you haven't at least thought about the subject. Broad generalization so of course wrong but you know what I mean.

I am going to try putting together a BP/W set-up. Between regulators, tanks, dive markers, training, travel, and everything else, the BC is among the cheaper expenses...and the BP/W would look cooler hung on my wall (joking).


Thank you to everyone!